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Programming => Other Games & Projects => Topic started by: spacefractal on March 22, 2017, 08:48:54 PM

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 22, 2017, 08:48:54 PM
Commodore tune is the best  :D. I wish all these songs are actually in .sid (multiple tracks in one), that would be crazy!


haha, im was just gonna to go throught the fun old dinary about this game and see im can find the picture of the bus posted somewhere (im did not found it). Also more recently im did converted more of the tunes to sid :-). Property as you know, but im do missing various tunes.

Also im also lost some work tunes recently (few), due my iPad 2 dedicated to been crazy too often (im have two ipads, its was the old one).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 23, 2017, 05:33:48 PM
I did read though most of this topic a few months ago, very nostalgic
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 23, 2017, 07:25:25 PM
Hehe, excellent necropostresurrectbryanferry SF. :P

Here's the bus, the crazy bus, blow up the res and print it out on a sheet and make it into a pillow for extra softness. :D

I did read though most of this topic a few months ago, very nostalgic


It was an awesomely hectic development, haven't seen anything like it ever since. I only pity some old angry buggers who lurked around and never had courage to actually 'sign up' and join such great (and free from all BS) collaboration between people who enjoy what they do. Buggers will still be old angry self absorbed pompous fish arses while we still do what we like to do*.





*Yes, this is officially a f#cktro :)

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 24, 2017, 11:21:34 AM
Eark, it's was not negative meant as its sound (yes).

The bus was just my favorit and tried to find it (for fun). Im remember its was posted once somewhere, so im for fun tried to find it (even many other objects was also fun).

Anyway the sid comment was somewhere, because im a near decade later now have found a great tracker tool to create SID files with and still doing that. So.... Im might and still do more MMLL tunes (as im did with the full Jungool album).

The thread is also fun to read, like your favorit about the Commodore Tune :-). Im should do that one again, even its was taken from a another sid tune, not done me (im just recreated that in XM). Yes its a fun tune too really.

Ps. Some edits.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 24, 2017, 07:07:33 PM
Eark, it's was not negative meant as its sound (yes).

Of course not lad, I liked the bus too, just noticed actually the obvious 'windows repeating tiles' hehe. :P
Btw, I'm thinking of putting a little Sid player on me olde site as well, probably JSid but to skin it nicely if possible as to look more 'C64' like but..
somewhat having trouble with it reading its playlist (it is in txt format), which player are you using on your site?

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 24, 2017, 10:30:54 PM
The quality im saw in flash Sid player was no where good as a real windows sid player, so im converted them to full MP3 instead in max quality as possible.

Also Java is going not being in browsers that more, except recently in Denmark.... it's a different story.

Yes, I did see the repeat tiles in top window. Property they "shadow" tiles could just been removed. But it's still do the job and as least on a ds screen.

The MP3 player I'm use is a plugin I'm found to Wordpress. I'm checking tomorrow the plugin.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 25, 2017, 01:19:38 AM
The quality im saw in flash Sid player was no where good as a real windows sid player, so im converted them to full MP3 instead in max quality as possible.

Also Java is going not being in browsers that more, except recently in Denmark.... it's a different story.

Yes, I did see the repeat tiles in top window. Property they "shadow" tiles could just been removed. But it's still do the job and as least on a ds screen.

The MP3 player I'm use is a plugin I'm found to Wordpress. I'm checking tomorrow the plugin.

JSid is actually javascript not the java player as I remember there was one like that so its quite safe. I figured out my playlist problem (duh) as I can't preview it locally :-[ so I'll use it as it works well and has all the features I need.  :P
The only bloody thing is that everything is based on tables and cells, must convert to divs to skin it proper as it is a mess. :)

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 25, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
Last time Im tested web player, they was nowhere pair with a real sid player. So that hence im dont use a web sid player, but dedicated to convert them to MP3. So im just uses a mp3 player with a plugin found to Word Press.

Sids also does not have a endning to a song as well (unless you insert them manual in a file of course).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 25, 2017, 06:33:40 PM
Last time Im tested web player, they was nowhere pair with a real sid player. So that hence im dont use a web sid player, but dedicated to convert them to MP3. So im just uses a mp3 player with a plugin found to Word Press.

Sids also does not have a endning to a song as well (unless you insert them manual in a file of course).

I agree about the quality but this one is not bad at all. Tho, we cannot help but remember the heresy of 1545 when many were prosecuted for emulating SID through soundblasters on desktop too.  :o

By the by, damn, I wish there was a place with info about (at least) approximate endings for many of tunes, now I either have to leave it to user to skip whenever or come up with some approx ending. Most of them loop so nice it is really tricky to say where they end or whether they repeat some patterns a few times before ending. I can only for sure say that Zorro tune lasts for like 12 seconds if you repeat it twice. :P

 
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 26, 2017, 08:11:53 AM
yes JSid is not awful at all, even its in a lower quality, but its still acceptable. Its of course still have its limits (song lengths and limited browser support).

In the DOCUMENTS folder, there is a song length database, some players can use to detect the song length. Im do still not have checked how that works for my own sid songs.

Im do choiced mp3 because its easist to work with.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 26, 2017, 06:59:25 PM
yes JSid is not awful at all, even its in a lower quality, but its still acceptable. Its of course still have its limits (song lengths and limited browser support).

In the DOCUMENTS folder, there is a song length database, some players can use to detect the song length. Im do still not have checked how that works for my own sid songs.

Im do choiced mp3 because its easist to work with.

Hmm..maybe we're talking about different player, I used this one http://hermit.sidrip.com/ , jsid web player and it does work and sound is quite nice, cross browser support as well (well, chromium and ff that I tested, likely IE/edge too then). There are no major limits that I can see really.

Also, dunno about documents folder, this one does not come with db of song lengths so I had to do that on my own (listen and cut :P). However, managed to skin it as proper as I could get, maybe a few tweaks here and there but so far it works, check the pic... :D

EDIT:

Forgot to ask, I had a tool years ago where you can edit sids, cut songs/rearrange order, etc.. I think it was that one called SidTool. It seems to be still available on author's site but I can't download it, there are warnings about insecure site, etc..but even when I get to the link the page is blank.  :'(
Do you have any tool like this or can you try to download this bugger (I doubt the site has anything harmful tho), this is the site - http://sidtool.demodungeon.com/
 :-\
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 27, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
im cant download it either. mightbeen you should contact him. JSID does not support IE, but its did works in IE Edge. Im have not heard about this tool, im using XMPLAY or SIDPLAY2 as my sid player generally.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 27, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
im cant download it either. mightbeen you should contact him. JSID does not support IE, but its did works in IE Edge. Im have not heard about this tool, im using XMPLAY or SIDPLAY2 as my sid player generally.

Ye, seems borked totally, no matter tho. I really wanted to use it to shuffle some subtunes and/or make some play first or completely delete some which are nothing but sfx. Example- Green Beret, have 21 (sub)tunes and the first is not bad which plays by default but the one I would shuffle to be first is 10th tune which is the best (menu one). The editor, if this is the one I had years ago, allowed for both shuffling or deleting subtunes which was quite handy. I also use Sidplay2 as a general player but this tool was just for editing sids really.  :-[
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 27, 2017, 07:24:24 PM
Sid is nothing other than c64 code and data to play tunes with, it's a emulator. So it's was not designed for web use. The best way might still rip the songs wanted to use to MP3 and use a player, which was easiest for me. Im thinks you want to do a album like collection.

And yes subsongs can been annoying if you only want one of them.

This was That I'm did for all my sid songs on the website and let uses download the sid collection as sid. It's does use much more traffic, but I'm would not to been too concern about that.

But that sid tool seems very old tool as well and seems discounted long time ago (even it's would still been excellent).

xm is a complete different format. It's more based on mod files.

Ps. Might been you should draw a level how the outdoor temple level could have looked on c64 version of Jungool, which im thinks it's would have been somewhere Creature style and property would limit to side scrolling. Could been fun.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 27, 2017, 07:40:18 PM
Sid is nothing other than c64 code and data to play tunes with, it's a emulator. So it's was not designed for web use. The best way might still rip the songs wanted to use to MP3 and use a player, which was easiest for me. Im thinks you want to do a album like collection.

I know mate. :D
I was talking about jsSid web plugin to use on site (as I've finally skinned it proper :P) and SidTool (or whichever it was I used many a year ago) which had the ability (nice gui as I recall) to shuffle songs about or delete subtunes or even assume which one goes first.

This was only for convenience sake as if you use the web player now, you'll get to certain songs where the first tune is 'sfx' and lasts only 5 sec and after it ends the player goes to next song, so users would have to be fast to press subtune button in order to get to the tune which is the actual (desired) tune, like in case of Green Beret and many others. I'm still using this player tho as it is good enough sound wise (some songs seemingly loose some juice here and there but not much) and bloody hell, spent hours skinning this puppy not to use it now. :P
Also, I hand picked tunes I liked really, have about 91 working sids so far!

Ps. Might been you should draw a level how the outdoor temple level could have looked on c64 version of Jungool, which im thinks it's would have been somewhere Creature style and property would limit to side scrolling. Could been fun.

You mean Xibalba temple (inside, where you bonk the Jaguar in nutters) or that one with the grassy knoll/statue outside?

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 28, 2017, 05:11:51 AM
yes, but currectly im not using jsid etc at all.

About the level, actuelly totally up to you. The original level site was 2048x1024. When downscaled its 446x200 pixels. Since we use charset (not bitmap, take too much memory me thinks), then a level might want to been either 640x200 or 960x200. If its a single scroll (full focus on sprite and physics), then the focus could been the element required (like the grassy knoll on center, and a stone move up puzzle on the right screen, and some more platformers on the left side), etc the levels will been quite expanded..... But... its what its COULD look thing, nothing to been perfect at all. Just for fun. Of course foreground is the focus, not backgrounds. Again just for fun :-) (now im have done all Jungool Tunes as C64 versions, most tunes even expanded).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 28, 2017, 03:04:52 PM
You mean something like this? :P

The best way about such maps, if done for c64 or if c64 gfx is used to emulate 'that look' would be tiles. More control that way methinks and would likely look better and more clear, too many color replacements happen with drawings like this which is inevitable, if you draw the whole map this way.

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 28, 2017, 03:54:55 PM
Haha :-). Im would property Do with a tiles and 2-3 screen wide, depend on content.  Both scrolling screen and flip screen is fine and wagga might have use 2 sprites 16x16 pixel me thinks l.

 But again. It's just for fun :-D. I'm did have a lots of fun with 64 Jungool music.

But cool screen anyway.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 28, 2017, 04:19:16 PM
Well, here's that screen and wagga with 2 frames (for blinking :P) in case you need it for something.
But yeah, tiles would have been a better choice methinks.

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 28, 2017, 07:48:59 PM
here im converted using real limits (using a Project One program to Windows to convert the pic to a Koala one). Here Wagga is used 3 hires sprite, the bee using one lowres sprite (the gray one could been disabled when 5 sprites is on wagga height).

Actuelly single screen levels could been fun too and let it being task based to do various task: first touch butter flies, then avoid angry bees, later a troll will appear. kill that (which the known method), then a mask will appear, and stones falls to ground (in oversize sprites). Touch all stones to get them away, and then a key thrown in, get that and you will rool to the next level. Something like that and all only require sprites.

The indoor will do require two bitmap screens (16kb), the third one again a single screen.

Yes we also talked a bit much offtypic, hehe.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 28, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
I've used real limits as well while drawing, you can notice them around the trees and some platforms (upper left). Wagga looks a bit strange tho. :P
Btw, what are you doing with this, making an actual game...on desktop or...?
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 29, 2017, 05:00:43 AM
Just having fun and something to add to the C64 Jungool sid page (im have sid all songs, also just for fun):
http://blog.spacefractal.com/sid-songs/jungool-c64/

Im have no plan to a actuelly game. Just some fun proff, how its could look with all c64 limits (here using sprites & bitmap).
 
Wagga you drawed was 36x33px size using 5 sprites. Too much for C64. C64 sprites was 24x21px in one color only, and im would not use multcolor sprites for Wagga. Here im tried to use 3 sprites version in 16x16px big instead (fell free to change). The bee was converted to one sprite multicolor size, again some details got lost.

On the background, its seen its have removed the red color. Few details did got lost when converted to koala bitmap picture, but not much to been noticable at all really. Im got most of the red color back again (but there was some color artifact im could not avoid on the entrance).

BUT im LOVE and like the picture, both versions. Its a Proff anyway. If you want, just add a "sprite" based signature to the pics. They all for fun. The title/loading is also koala pic (more correctly than seen on my page).

PS. Yes thus might been offtype, its nowhere MMLL typic, hehe. (Flash, fell free to split the thread, if you want).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 29, 2017, 05:44:31 PM
Just having fun and something to add to the C64 Jungool sid page (im have sid all songs, also just for fun):
http://blog.spacefractal.com/sid-songs/jungool-c64/


Ahh, cool. Well, I drew wagga to best fit that bkg image really, without concern for size limits and seeing that in fact it is not meant for use on C64 anyway, I did a little animation strip (although done as multicolor 3+transparent) at 32x32, maybe you can use it this way (at least it looks somewhat like wagga :P ).
I'll try to draw the banner as you have it there on site (640x400) with limits and see what gives. The palette would really benefit of brighter colors like in VICE by default but I'll do pepto and see what happens. :P

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 29, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
Ah, hehe here's then a jungle one, 320x but rescale as you see fit. This is how it looks on my CCS64-
It is done with limits and all (you can check that koala included too) but I have autocraftilymagickthingie hidden most of these. :P

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 29, 2017, 08:52:39 PM
Haha I'm love the pic. Im will use on my sid pages. Nice you took the challenge :-D.

Wagga in "real" c64 would been max 24x21, but yes the 32x32 is Nice too. That size would uses on Amiga.....

Currently all sid tunes is in various sid page on top right, but missing down that on all pages. I'm recently have renamed all sid files, im reupload tomorrow to all pages (all sid files).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 29, 2017, 09:25:35 PM
Haha I'm love the pic. Im will use on my sid pages. Nice you took the challenge :-D.

Wagga in "real" c64 would been max 24x21, but yes the 32x32 is Nice too. That size would uses on Amiga.....

Currently all sid tunes is in various sid page on top right, but missing down that on all pages. I'm recently have renamed all sid files, im reupload tomorrow to all pages (all sid files).

Hehe, cool. As for sprites, you're right, I drew these latest in tile editor made for drawing c64 tiles, hence 32x32 size. Technically, you could always use high res sprites, Flash can likely explain better how to bloody connect separate parts for use in game. :P

And yes, put the sids, those of MMLL on the page, zip'em or something, people might be interested in sids as well as mp3. By the by, have you tried to upload them to something like HVSC, I mean they have like over 40K of stuff, a few more would not hurt, plus they are made for legit game. :D

Also, if you don't mind, a few corrections (spelling bugger :) ) for jungool sids -

Dancing B'alam
Jacaranda Sacrifice
Jungle Feathers
Over The Caca's Nest
The Perils of Xibalba (you wrote Xibalba's Trap )

Also, have a Horace.. :)

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 04:11:14 AM
Software sprites on a bitmap screen would been very slow and pretty much unplayable (even slower than Spectrum) and will became even more color artifact and clases like the spectrum. It's won't work on spectrum. Hardware sprites can show unaffected of mode used, so you could still move them 50fps. So a real game using bitmap would been sprites only. So sprites should max been in 24x21, but they could also been strected too (as seen in Atari 2600) and multiplexed. But we also have sprites memory limits too.

But it's for fun, so......

There is two Horace tunes on the various sid page (im did same song twice).

Some spelling was on purpose, due they was too long to been included in sid file. But I'm checking out.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 04:20:19 AM
I was thinking more of 'double sprite' or hi res sprites or whatever they're called, many games do use them, just like many use multi color sprites where you technically have 3 colors+transparent (4th). Otherwise everything would look like Horace vs Spiders. :P
Dunno about techniques tho, am sure Flash would know how to handle such (must be some mind bending technique :) ).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 04:27:44 AM
then you will also lost number of sprites possible for enemies as well. you have only 8 sprites per line. im remember you could only map to around 112 sprites or such that. some games also use mix of single color and multi color sprites as well. Im gonna to update the page now.

Since im will avoild multi color is simply, so we would have 5 sprites for the enemies as well for various purpuse.

Still. We dont need to limit anything at all.

Flash, can you split the C64 talk to own thread (easier to track it).

Im gonna to update the links now, im checking spelling and titles later.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 04:40:06 AM
You ever done anything C64 wise, btw?
It would be interesting to make a little c64 program with all the sids of jungool or MM in one pack just like music discs back in the day (altho, many still do make them, which is nice). :P
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 04:45:31 AM
A little BASIC game for 20-30 years ago (im have not the game anymore). Recently a lots of sid tunes in SidTracker 64 (iPad).

Im have not done all MM tunes, so there is various Lost Level tunes missing.

The C64 Jungool tunes is last quite longer than the original one, sometimes they are double in length.

All my tunes is 50hz vbr timing, so they dosent use very much cpu time to play them. Its on purpose.

Sadly im have lost various source" for the tunes, since im my iPad 2 broke. im could also have exported them to PRG files. They play well in emulators.

Links and Pic now updated. Check them out (im havent checked for spelling etc).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 05:00:38 AM
OK, will check it out. ;)
As for sids, it would be nice to have them all together in prg, a nice interface and such, would look awesome.

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 05:06:53 AM
OK, quick note, did check it out so the link is on the right side. Methinks, on both Jungool and MM, possibly separate MM & Jungool sids, pack them into a zip and put them perhaps to a more obvious space, like below the image with bold letters (always helps :D ) and, you know, zip size, songs total, etc.
Might be easier to find then cause at casual glance, it is easy to miss the link on the right where it resides now. :P

Also..perhaps, just host the stuff on your host space instead of dropbox, lately bloody dropbox is annoying with those 'log in' or whatever crap, on your host it all goes *poof* and done. :P
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:11:01 AM
Im can't do that anymore for half of the songs (those that was on old iPad). Sadly the Dropbox sharing doesn't work correctly with sid tracker 64 (its freeze after loading). Hopefully there exist a sid to prg or a sid tracker update.

I'm did ran out of time now, so it's was a quite fast update. The sid songs is a easy download anyway in file size and I'm have used folders for them. So by now Dropbox was fastest way, due new sid songs. Sooner or later I'm do upload to my server. My Dropbox account is also a paid one.
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 05:14:30 AM
I'm sure that there is a way to sid to prg nowadays.

For the links, I mean..it would be more convenient to separate each to its own zip (Jungool, MM, Various) and offer at their own pages for those who want one or the other or third, etc. easier to spot them that way. :P

OK, g'night gotta go now to slumberland! :D

Title: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:16:55 AM
I'm see what can do. It's just due the way I'm have used them and it's was a fast update. Sleep sweet. Im are out to work as well soon (it's morning here).
Title: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 03:48:12 PM
Ah, hehe here's then a jungle one, 320x but rescale as you see fit. This is how it looks on my CCS64-
It is done with limits and all (you can check that koala included too) but I have autocraftilymagickthingie hidden most of these. :P


LOVE that pic Lobo. I really wish I had the time to actually build a test level on real 64 hardware. Sadly, it's perhaps been too long and would take far too much effort to do it justice.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 03:57:09 PM
Love the Horace one even more so :)

Move the split topic here, not sure if this is the best place, and the topic is still a public one
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 04:03:11 PM
The max for the jungool sprite would be 21x21, but you could use 2 sprites and to 24x24 along with a multiplex. this would leave room for another 6 sprites in a split horizontally. Though of course if you were not using multicolour, you would then need 6 sprites for 3 colours. Or, use a multi background sprite and an overlay sprite for a main colour.

ps. it is possible to use software sprites on a bitmap screen. Not entirely sure how many you could sustain, but certainly a 32x32 Wagga.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 04:16:19 PM
Love the Horace one even more so :)

Move the split topic here, not sure if this is the best place, and the topic is still a public one

Cool, hehe, that would look awesome on hardware methinks. If you ever get your asm mojo back, we can do some little test, or as I suggested to SF like a little music disc, some gfx and a couple of sids on a side to choose from, always awesome to see those. Tho, I did notice a bunch of neat ide's for C= , one of them was this one http://www.ajordison.co.uk but there were others.

The max for the jungool sprite would be 21x21, but you could use 2 sprites and to 24x24 along with a multiplex. this would leave room for another 6 sprites in a split horizontally. Though of course if you were not using multicolour, you would then need 6 sprites for 3 colours. Or, use a multi background sprite and an overlay sprite for a main colour.

ps. it is possible to use software sprites on a bitmap screen. Not entirely sure how many you could sustain, but certainly a 32x32 Wagga.

Ahah! I knew there was some wizardry afoot. Man, that does sound like alchemy a bit, can't even think of what it took for some games which had extra large sprites to fit that all in (for some reason, I'm thinking of that abomination Red Heat :) ).

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 04:19:13 PM
its was actuelly 24x21, not 21x21 (hehe):
http://dustlayer.com/vic-ii/2013/4/28/vic-ii-for-beginners-part-5-bringing-sprites-in-shape

Sprites on C64 is quite odd. On Spectrum would go for 24x24 instead.

The Wagga im using on my Jungool sid page is correctly 22x21 (downscaled from 32x32 and fixed pixel issue to prevent so less loss as possible.

Yes software sprite is possible, but its would not been 50fps at all, and you would not have that much left for the physics engine and enemies at all.

Hence im would choice 3 hires sprites for Wagga, so we would have left 5 sprites for enemies (more than fine), where multiplexing might even not required at all or simple 16 sprite one. Then you can use whatever colors for enemies, since they wont need shared with colors with Wagga sprite at all as well. The red sprite would not even need a animation when rolling.

Lobos 32x32 was actuelly a strected 3 single, so its would require 6 sprites total (which Flash correctly wrote).
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
its was actuelly 24x21, not 21x21 (hehe):
http://dustlayer.com/vic-ii/2013/4/28/vic-ii-for-beginners-part-5-bringing-sprites-in-shape

Sprites on C64 is quite odd. On Spectrum would go for 24x24 instead.

The Wagga im using on my Jungool sid page is correctly 22x21 (downscaled from 32x32 and fixed pixel issue to prevent so less loss as possible.

Yes software sprite is possible, but its would not been 50fps at all, and you would not have that much left for the physics engine and enemies at all.

Hence im would choice 3 hires sprites for Wagga, so we would have left 5 sprites for enemies (more than fine), where multiplexing might even not required at all or simple 16 sprite one. Then you can use whatever colors for enemies, since they wont need shared with colors with Wagga sprite at all as well. The red sprite would not even need a animation when rolling.

Lobos 32x32 was actuelly a strected 3 single, so its would require 6 sprites total (which Flash correctly wrote).

A quick question, if you had one enemy sprite, would changing color palette to make differently colored instances (say switching 1 for the other of multicolor(s)) work on the fly? Without too much trouble, that is. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
no. C64 sprites share 2 colors for all sprites and one for each sprite own.

C64 can only display 8 sprites per line. They can been multicolor (3 colors) lowres, single color hires sprites. They can also been combined.

Red Hot example using 2x2 multiplexed sprites (property one lowres and one hires). So hence its shown 16 sprites here. but still not shown more than 8 sprites per line.

Creatures 2 also uses heavy use of great multiplexed sprites changes the charset palette a cross the screen multiply of times as well. Its even use smart sprite animations on the border. In jungool, small birds could been flying there:
http://grumbel.blogspot.dk/2011/04/c64-graphics-dissecting-creatures.html

Turrican 2 and Bobble bobble have great use of both software and hardware sprites (but they also not using bitmap modes). Etc the bubbles was actuelly software sprites in 19 fps, bub and bob used hardware.

So software sprites is clearly best with charset tiles, not with bitmap.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 04:59:23 PM
no. C64 sprites share 2 colors for all sprites and one for each sprite own.

So software sprites is clearly best with charset tiles, not on bitmap.


I see..well, that blows. :)
However, I was thinking of actual charset when I mentioned color/palette switch, not the bitmap. Somewhat I did take for granted that you cannot do anything with bitmap but charset, tiles? It looks in some games as if that worked (I probably just assumed that it does) cause I could see a whole bunch of characters, obviously same but with different colors here and there.


Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:05:18 PM
you can do that with charset, see Creatures 2, change the palette on a raster line. You can also do that with bitmap too. Im pretty sure its required for the pictures used. Im not sure (bad lines thing).

Shadow of the Beast also used smart use of software sprite, raster palette changes and interrupts. Im love that way they used the large red dragons in the outdoor scene, which was actuelly software sprites and not hardware (the clouds is hardware sprites). Smart trick (around 10:50 here):


Here in Jungool, we used bitmap graphics, so rest should been using hardware sprites for 50fps gaming. But in other levels, char its can been tiles of course, and in eventuelly in Creature 2 style.

PS. Sorry im removed some of my text. sorry for that.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 05:13:53 PM
they can use raster interrups. That was heavy used very insane in Shadow of the best. Some enemies was also software sprites.


As Daleks would say.."Explain!!"... :)
But I see..the technique seemingly used a lot in various demos as well.
Well now, something interesting learned today, that would be that c64 techniques are esoteric at best. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64 (proff of concept)
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:25:04 PM
im thinks im edited to explain how the red dragon was used, which is my guess. Clouds is sprites.

Raster interrups happens when you change palette on the fly, multiplex sprites and much more on a scanline (and even change graphics mode in the fly). But generally im have not seen atari 2600 style sprites on C64. Its allways done that on charset/bitmap. But sprites can sometimes used to hide them.

Creatures 2 is excellent example (see link how its was done).

Also bitmap using 8kb, while charset only needs 1kb (+ color memory). So its faster to move thing around in charset mode.

But also the VICII have various strange bugs...... Etc to scroll bitmap in hardware and such thing.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 05:39:06 PM
Yeah, those gigantic sprites always baffled me, like that Dragon in Beast and that gigantic hand coming out of the ground but there were others, Turrican is also a good example. Tho, with some clever design, you can really hide some other 'flaws' or what was minimal in terms of tiles like in background or platforms which are mostly very repetitive but the rest is mind blowing.  :o

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:48:46 PM
Yes, The hand was multiplexed sprites.  Yes Manfred Trenz is a cool coder :-). Yes there was some very clever designed with the limited sprite system if done right. But you can do multiplexed many times as long there is cpu cycle left.

In Lemmings (which im deleted), the foreground was multiplexed sprites, and lemmings was software sprites (the other way around than excepte). That hence you see the limited space, since the last sprite was used for the pointer. But in the tradeoff, you can see a lots of lemmings instead limited to just 7. Howover there is slowdown as well, but its a greate comprimse here.

The dragon was just drawed as its was a foreground. But its clewer use of software and hardware sprites in Shadow of the Beast. yes, even gameplay could been better. Its a cool 8 bit version.

In Jungool im would still go for the Creatures 2 style (me thinks) as best inspiration (even im newer played that game very much, im like the graphics). Im thinks some levels would been bitmap/sprites as the mayan level, which could works. The second one might want to use charset for scrolling. So its depend on level. The boss level would been bitmap again. This is what im thinks would works best. But allways only doing 2 way scrolling.


Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 05:49:29 PM
its was actuelly 24x21, not 21x21 (hehe):
But that would not be a round Wagga would it... So, the best you could do is fill 21x21 pixels into the sprite.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 05:55:28 PM
yes of course. here you right. But 22x21 is also not that bad which im tried. but 21x21 is best, due its a ball. We dont need to use all pixels of course.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 05:56:18 PM
yes of course. here you right. But 22x21 is also not that bad which im tried. but 21x21 is best, due its a ball. We dont need to use all pixels of course.

You would have to use 22x21 for multicolour of course.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
im would use 3 single color sprites for Wagga (hence we can avoid to use shared color with Wagga and Enemies). Im doubt we would ever use more than 5 sprites for enemies, if we multiplex clever or sometimes not required.... Its depend how clewer the level is designed to avoid that.

We dont even need to use all sprites on screen as one. The Trolle could fly down using ballons instead rolling on the bridge example, after you have catch the butterflies or something like that (which might fly away or allways stay under it or fly away).

The stone part would property might been removed for that level?
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 06:11:02 PM
im would use 3 single color sprites for Wagga (hence we can avoid to use shared color with Wagga and Enemies). Im doubt we would ever use more than 5 sprites for enemies, if we multiplex clever or sometimes not required.... Its depend how clewer the level is designed to avoid that.

We dont even need to use all sprites on screen as one. The Trolle could fly down using ballons instead rolling on the bridge example, after you have catch the butterflies or something like that (which might fly away or allways stay under it or fly away).

The stone part would property might been removed for that level?

Bloody 'ell, the physics would be crazy, you would have to find a different ways of doing so many things currently working in game. Although, hitting Jaguar in the nutters could technically work as it is. :)

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Yes Its would, using multiplexes multicolor sprites (me thinks) and in a smaller settiing of course. Hopefully single screen level or slight vertical scrolling.

Physics mightbeen simpleced of course. But still do the job. Physics and sprites would been main focus. Not scrolling.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 30, 2017, 06:39:52 PM
Yes Italy would, using multiplexes multicolor sprites l and in a smaller scaling. Hopefully single screen level or slight vertical scrolling.

Physics mightbeen simpleced of course. But still do the job. Physics and sprites would been main focus.

Physics on the level of jungool would be impossible. Even a simple vector (cube -> circle) collision test with velocity and rotational force would be impossible at a full 60fps. For example, the bridge is a no-no. The rocks on the first level are 'possible' using a simple circular distance check and an angle check to decide the movement vector, but... would still be very hard. Also, there is no chance of sprite rotation at all.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 06:55:10 PM
Wait, where did that post of SF go? He mentioned Pinball dreams and *POOF*...went to netherworld. :D
Wanted to ask..what? I don't recall PD on 64, only amiga, where did you get that?

Btw, if that was possible then pinball jungool level is possible. :P

EDIT:

So there is one indeed, gonna try it out in a moment. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 07:17:47 PM
Server issues, SMF crashed, so im deleted (and gonna to rewrite again). Im deleted it quite fast (because im throught its hang).
 
smaller scaling was more meant smaller setting.

Yes the bridge would been no go (its not drawn on pic either), but its could been a plane instead of car as one of the required change.

You would still need to catch a mask and then hit it. Its a little change to avoid physics limits. But still recognizable.

Physics should go for Wagga only of course, newer the rest. That impossible, and also not required at all. Its a smaller setting.

Think physics from old pinball game really, not really Pinball Dreams, but even Night Mission (1982) also have a nice ball physics too. The ball physics should been something like that Night Mission me thinks (the game supported multiball, so).

PS. Yes im mention Pinball Dreams (
) which came as a very early demo to C64. The ball physics is VERY insane close to Amiga, even with bitmap scrolling. But there is no real gameplay throught. Im do guess they did ran out of memory for rest of the game. Pinball Dreams did came out to Amstrad. Very impressive.

PPS. Some games also used 25fps, which is also nice too :-). Bubble bobble did that.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 07:36:10 PM
Bloodyellandchicken, just played that preview for pinball dreams and it IS Impressive!   ???
Crazy stuff people do...


Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 07:56:14 PM
yes its impressive, even its nowhere a full game. the game also just released to Amstrad to being even more impressive version. For Jungool we should do more do the Night Mission (another old pinball game) kind type, which is property much lighter on the cpu (its had 4 ball multiball here as im remember) and its even a Spectrum port (but a good one). Its its a old game, but the ball physics is still good for its time and would suit this game fine.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 08:03:16 PM
Gotta check that Amstrad version then...lately I picked up a bunch of cpc/zx/c64 homebrew...some really fantastic stuff, check http://www.vintageisthenewold.com for example, they list a bunch of great stuff there (Soks is in there with fallati..I mean, Vallation :P).

For Jungool we should do more do the Night Mission ...

Good! Start coding, I'll get you a Jaguar multires multieverything in a few days. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 30, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
Haha. I'm wish im could. Would been fun to learn and code a c64 game a day. I'm checkout the site tomorrow. I'm go to dreamland soon.

The pics here was still a proff of concept using c64'limits how it's could look and imagine it. In such way it's was possible and playable.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 08:09:52 PM
Yep, it would be awesome, even 'pof', tho..I must say (nudge nudge wink wink) that it is a travesty of universal magnitude that Horace is even ported to ZX and not yet on either DS or C64, foul I cry, foul! :) :)

Tho, we can imagine playing it (in our heads) with these little images, make little animation and then produce 'human beat box jumping sounds'. :D

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 30, 2017, 08:37:21 PM
Incidentally, I've found this pic in MMLL, can't remember seeing it in game, was it implemented? :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 31, 2017, 07:40:05 AM
Yes, it was used and is also in MM
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 31, 2017, 09:00:42 AM
Where?
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on March 31, 2017, 10:08:19 AM
It was one of the splat animations.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 31, 2017, 10:21:59 AM
of course. howover well recheck that. im was also not sure its was used, even its was in the game. Its a fun object anyway and could been used in the new mmll splat of course.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 31, 2017, 07:05:33 PM
Ah, OK..as I can't recall seeing it...was mostly splattered by piano and Big Bertha(tm). :P
Here's something for you, played with different palette as well and some are really cool, wouldn't know which to choose (although I like dark default and pepto one).
Btw, like the banner, hahah, nice change. :P


Also, SF, I remembered now..Barbarian, it bloody had the color change on the fly, it had to. 3 characters plus that slimy gremlin, wizard was like static with his hands flailing and player. Now, enemy was just like player with exception that torso was likely an attached sprite with a shirt. That shirt would change colors on every level (7-8 forgot exactly) and would range from green, brown, blue, etc. but always in the same fashion. I remember it well as I dreaded the one with black shirt as he appeared smarter than the rest by promptly avoiding my 'hold fire-joystick top/left-instant head slicer move'. :P

So..it was possible, although limited but still, that one color change was enough for variety. Imagine then Hunter doing the same, from having one color that is particular and pronounced but changed strategically to red/green/blue, etc.
The only thing is..whether that would be possible to combine on one and the same level, like 2 creatures-same sprite but different color as in Barbarian they were obviously on their own levels. That I dunno... 8)


Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 31, 2017, 07:47:34 PM
Barbarian share most of spectrum code for this port, but a good one. Actually the fighters was used software sprites, not hardware. But the shirts did used a hardware sprite, so they could just changed the color value. The sprite is gone when he falling down. That why it's a bit slow and was no where 50fps, but the game was still fully playable and a fun game too.

Ik+ used sprites for two of the fighters and last fighter was software one (hence the blank background behind fighters).
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 31, 2017, 08:56:26 PM
Barbarian share most of spectrum code for this port, but a good one. Actually the fighters was used software sprites, not hardware. But the shirts did used a hardware sprite, so they could just changed the color value. The sprite is gone when he falling down. That why it's a bit slow and was no where 50fps, but the game was still fully playable and a fun game too.

Ik+ used sprites for two of the fighters and last fighter was software one (hence the blank background behind fighters).

True, it was fast enough to play, a bit slower-y play actually added to the effect of 'feeling that heavy blade under one own's ribs'. :D
For IK, yeah, kinda similar, both players are exactly the same so..technically only one sprite? The other was just white and the judge didn't animate but was part of bkg methinks (I could be wrong tho, he might have blinked :P).

OK, first something for Flash then something for you then, hehe...


Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 31, 2017, 09:17:27 PM
Wow I'm love that pic :-)

The Pause screen used 5 fighters on screen.... no where possible with hardware sprites only.

It's took quite bytes of memory for two set of images (one for hardware version and one for software version), hence we now only have one background.

The fighters is of course same. Here I'm do like the Spectrum version as well.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on March 31, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
I'm insert it's on my page tomorrow.

Im likes the slow pace in barbarian too (gameplay was still fun and used too much time in the days) and was newer trought they was software sprites. Tune is great too. Yes it's used one sprite me thinks. Except when You head chop him. The green goblin is a hardware sprite. It's clearly the gladiator is software when he got moved away. I'm so just wonder where the shirt go when they die..... hehe.

It's easy to change color want to use on sprite. It's just to chance one byte. So the shirt is of course reused. You can't do color rainbow effect on same sprite through (seen in many Atari 2600 games).
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on March 31, 2017, 11:19:07 PM
I'm so just wonder where the shirt go when they die..... hehe.


Probably to laundry. :P
But who knows, couldn't they just move it out the way or change to transparent color to hide it?
The game is awesome, 30 years old and still ass kicking, and the music is barbarically fine...tan-ta-naaaaaa-tan-tan-taaaaaaa..bombombombom...
I used to be somewhat of a champion <cough> back in the day, many heads have rolled under my sword...many! :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 01, 2017, 06:38:11 AM
they could do that without a issue, so property memory issue? Amstrad version did also go future to also change skin color as well. Its such a game, that is great on all/most platforms. Also the game was originally a C64 game :-): http://frgcb.blogspot.dk/2015/05/barbarian-ultimate-warrior-palace.html

Jungool is howover more about using some sort of pinball physics as its techincal would been a pinball game without flippers.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 01, 2017, 01:35:50 PM
nice warhawk picture as well.

Also:
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 01, 2017, 07:29:25 PM
Also the game was originally a C64 game :-): http://frgcb.blogspot.dk/2015/05/barbarian-ultimate-warrior-palace.html

Now that you mentioned it, I do also remember DOS version, not bad looking in cga tho but C64 version is superior to all. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on April 01, 2017, 08:19:32 PM
love the graphics you post Lobo, the Warhawk ones are wonderful. I must admit, if I was ever to revisit the 64, a new version of war hawk would certainly be something I would love to do. The original was the first 'real' code that we ever did and looking beck at it now, it could have been so much more.


Love the page header graphic. Awesome as always. I cannot use it as it needs to be layer based. If you increase and decrease the width of the browser, you will see how it changes.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 01, 2017, 09:34:58 PM
love the graphics you post Lobo, the Warhawk ones are wonderful. I must admit, if I was ever to revisit the 64, a new version of war hawk would certainly be something I would love to do. The original was the first 'real' code that we ever did and looking beck at it now, it could have been so much more.


Love the page header graphic. Awesome as always. I cannot use it as it needs to be layer based. If you increase and decrease the width of the browser, you will see how it changes.

Ye mate, I think..tile wise that Warhawk could certainly be punched a little and perhaps here and there even some of the enemies, would certainly look fantastic (not that it is bad now, mind). :P

Aye, I'll try to cut the header in pieces and see what gives... :D

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 01, 2017, 09:42:51 PM
OK, maybe something like this can work (separated as you did in three pieces) >>

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 02, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
OK, bloodyell mate, finished methinks skinning the cat that is Sidweb player, everyone check at http://spitoufs.com/art.html or heads will roll barbarian style. :)
OK, totally click on minimize button on the player or you're not my friends anymore!  :D

So far my most listen thingie-

+David Whittaker - Knight Games (never paid attention before to this one but awesome choon, loved the game back in the day)
+Ben Daglish - Mask III (same thing, nice tune but not so much perused before)
+Fred Gray - Mermaid Madness (bloody classic, game and tune :) )
+MMLL - a bunch of stuff by some Joshua Bishop Allan Poe who sometimes lurks around this forum, Space Adventure - the best so far!
+Neil Brennan - Mugsy's Revenge - (missed before, vaguely remember a game, awesome tune!)
+Fred Gray - NOMAD (remember this one well as game controls were sooooooo pissin me off but I PERSISTED! :) )
+David Whittaker - Quartet (yes, terrible game but not so bad with 2 players, tune=fantastic, just like 10 sec repeating to madness!)
+Rob Hubbard - Rasputin (RASPUTIN MATE! Say no more, 5 minutes of insanity, the reason to buy c64 if all else fails to convince you :D )
+Mark Cooksey - Salamander (can't remember this one at all, another gem rediscovered!)
+David Whittaker - Treasure Island (best 19 seconds of piratey tune :) )
+Rob Hubbard - Warhawk (4:23 of music that sounds familiar somewhat)

Ahoy!

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 02, 2017, 06:19:02 PM
 who is Joshua Bishop Allan Poe? :-X

Space Adventure was originally that tune that should have been done to Level 2, before im changed the main lead later to a another classic. So here im changed it back to the original. Its a quite simple tune, but fun to make simple tunes too (and im like simple tunes as well).

My favorit c64 album must been "The Last Ninja 2" by Matt Gray. Im have newer played the original, and only for some years ago listen to it, and then im sudently got hooked on that sound track. Awesome.

Yes some terrible games did also have great music and loaded them up anyway :-). Im remember Cobra was a crap game (but im did played it very much, due the cool tune). Here the Spectrum version is much much better.

The longeste tune im have heard is Tetris by Wally Beben. Its only got attection recently. Its a cool 25+ min long tune, actuelly perfectly suitable to a Tetris game. Im like that.

My longeste tune is a Cauldron tune in about little over 9 minuttes.

Yes, Salamander was a great port, even missing 2 levels.

on the remix side, im loved that Parasol Stars tune by Rapture at remix64. Its a very fun tune and fun use of stereo panning.

ps. Im do like the design on that page with C64 style and all.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 02, 2017, 08:44:18 PM
True, even crappy games had cool tunes and Cobra is a prime example. Although, if you think of it, musicians likely didn't even see most of the games they made music for as they made tunes so just gave their best anyway. He-Man, the arcade one is another good example of crap game but nice tune.

I gotta listen to that Tetris tune, can't tell if I heard it before, tbh. I forgot but gotta add Blade Runner and Hawkeye. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 02, 2017, 09:04:04 PM
Yes. Im Rememer played heman quite a much, property due that tune. Im loved that tune as well.

My scarest game  as kid was property forbidden forest. Simple blocky graphics, quite jerky scrolling, simple sounded fx... but a hell its had a lots of creepy atmosphere about and well designed game around those limits. I'm even turned off some time, but completed the game. Great memory.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 02, 2017, 09:09:35 PM
Hell yeah for Forbidden Forest, the greatest horror ever! I remember tune well and that spider bugger that comes out of the woods and such...sheesh!  :-\
I know someone, could be the original creator attempted a desktop version some time ago in 3d or so but I don't think that can be as scary as those couple of messy character codes flying about the screen.  :P

Hah, just discovered that the first Last Ninja tune is third subtune and lasts for 4:22 exactly. :P
I like when they have a pause at the end of a sid, one second is enough, hard to figure out when they nicely loop, Hubbard tunes are the trickiest to figure out especially as they can go on..and on...and on... 8)

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 02, 2017, 09:16:54 PM
There was a lost Hubbard tune found few years ago. A fun happy tune.

The game was simple, but was quite scary.

Some players does not start with the correct start sub tune, which is not allways the first one.

Checkout song length database or use a player that support that database. All songs from the hvsd should been in there.

Recently I'm played blue effect to rift. Great horror wave shooter. 3D does not allways works. I'm do have seen 3D version. The original is still best.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 02, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
There was a lost Hubbard tune found few years ago. A fun happy tune.

The game was simple, but was quite scary.

Some players does not start with the correct start sub tune, which is not allways the first one.

Checkout song length database or use a player that support that database. All songs from the hvsd should been in there.

Recently I'm played blue effect to rift. Great horror wave shooter. 3D does not allways works. I'm do have seen 3D version. The original is still best.

OK, so where is this song db? You mentioned it earlier but I can't find it anywhere on HVSC nor by searching. I don't want to download the whole HVSC collection if that's where the db is cause its ike 40K of songs in there. Do you have this list (I assume its just a txt file) ?
So far I have 'earball' the actual length by listening and trying to figure where the end could be, only a few of them there's no way to tell if they go on forever or how they repeat so I left an arbitrary number but most are quite correct cause I know majority of these tunes by heart, could play them on jawharp probably. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 03, 2017, 04:07:50 AM
I'm have the full collection. I'm send the document folder to you soon:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zriuk6p5jwu7787/Songlengths.txt?dl=0
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on April 03, 2017, 09:50:32 AM
OK, bloodyell mate, finished methinks skinning the cat that is Sidweb player, everyone check at http://spitoufs.com/art.html or heads will roll barbarian style. :)

Looks really good and fits with the design a treat :)
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 03, 2017, 06:40:21 PM
Looks really good and fits with the design a treat :)

Sweet..I hope you did press that minimize button. :P
So far I tested EDGe- works but no css filters so there's no hover effects, FFox works with all effects but had to have some custom css break somewhere, Chromium works exactly as it should, tried IE latest and it is abomination, broken almost completely, bloody 'ell that browser is really stubborn, must check Safari tho, it should work as it looks fine on the phone so desktop should do as well. I really hate html/css all this web stuff, still so much inconsistencies cross browsers one can never attune his own design with them all 100%.  :'(

I'm have the full collection. I'm send the document folder to you soon:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zriuk6p5jwu7787/Songlengths.txt?dl=0

Great stuff, thanks! :P
So far there's like 150 sids added so there's gonna be some rechecking...
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 06, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
Well now, here's something interesting called Chipmachine >> https://github.com/sasq64/chipmachine
As the author states "A demoscene/retro Jukebox/spotify-like music player". Very small, lightweight and fast, works nice but for some reason SIDs are failing completely for me.  :'( :'(
Some other formats sometimes fail but seemingly because the player cannot find the actual location of those files wherever they are online, not because the format is borked or unsupported somehow. I just can't tell why SID won't do, tried so many of them and they all fail, can't believe that the reason is the '404 not found', I wish there was some log to explain...

Nevertheless, highly recommended, scans usual places to get AY, SID, MP3, trackers and some formats I've never bloody heard of before. :P

EDIT: Forgot to add, it is mulitplatform, yay! :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 06:12:10 AM
Checking out. It's could also been filename case spelling?

Anyway another level that could been fun to see is totem rodom. This would been two bitmap none scrolling level. One with the "tree" with no hunters. The other is the right side with fight for the fruit..... due no hunters is used on tree screen, the animated mouth could use sprites and full focus on that as all a simple talk bubble (which could been extended sprite.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 07:24:07 AM
Those apps require update for future combatibility. Currently I'm have not winsol installed.

As you see, that include some bigger games.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2017, 11:55:44 AM
Checking out. It's could also been filename case spelling?

Anyway another level that could been fun to see is totem rodom. This would been two bitmap none scrolling level. One with the "tree" with no hunters. The other is the right side with fight for the fruit..... due no hunters is used on tree screen, the animated mouth could use sprites and full focus on that as all a simple talk bubble (which could been extended sprite.

The file is found, for example I type 'Commando' and all possible versions come up, SID, MP3, AY and dozen other formats, all play but Sid, goes for any and every I tried.  :'(
Can you check some sids and see if it's working for you?

Ye, Totem Rondo (or rodom, not bad that one :P) could be funny looking, tho all that sliding would be tricky but regular platforming/chasing would look nice.

Btw, I call all my backgrounds 'Baggrund' from now on, that is the best word. Also 'Ingen TingelingenzeeOpdatiringeringel' is the name I will give to a cat, if I ever find one. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 05:32:13 PM
oops. the fucking dictionary, haha :).

Sometimes the english word is translated to danish. im was on mobile when im wrote the last post, and im dont allways notice that, when im dont change to the english keyboard.

btw im have quite unstabile net for the moments.

in Totem Rondo, its would been two screen. The first screen is the Rondo its self with no hunters and no action (other the communication screen). The other screen should been all platforming. Slides is not required really, and could even been gameplay wise a Horace psion style (as generally for Jungool C64, except for the ball Wagga physics).

Due two screens (tiles or bitmap). All movements would just been sprite based again and no software sprites is really required, so again full focus on sprites etc.

Im my self do using XMPlay as the player, which also support various formats. There exists plugin to play many of the Amiga formats as well SID one.

EDIT: Tried the player. howover you are right about the sid files. Its look like the URL its try to download is moved and/or removed. Sad, there is no where to change the url, so its could find them. the HVSC they using is also a bit older one, but should not been that issue really, only with some sid files, as long they diddent update the HVSC from the url as well.

EDIT2: hehe, im not sure where you found the Danish word, Baggrund (aka Background)? In code, im often might mix Danish and English.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2017, 07:28:53 PM

EDIT: Tried the player. howover you are right about the sid files. Its look like the URL its try to download is moved and/or removed. Sad, there is no where to change the url, so its could find them. the HVSC they using is also a bit older one, but should not been that issue really, only with some sid files, as long they diddent update the HVSC from the url as well.

EDIT2: hehe, im not sure where you found the Danish word, Baggrund (aka Background)? In code, im often might mix Danish and English.

So its not just me, bugger...hope the author realize that, I like the thingie... :P

The words Baggrund (man, I just like typing it) and the other abominable one I see on your screenshot you posted above from your preference whatever panel on ipad methinks. :D

One other level that might play nice, more arcade like would be Misty Jungle, kicking those guys into a hole and gigantic hand ala Shadow of the Beast! :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 07:47:01 PM
yes, the level could been fund, even with simpler AI (etc like Frantic Freddie). Hopefully in a single screen level or tiled scrolling level.

Also there is a fun spelling on the title screen in C64 Shadow of the beast.....
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 07:57:33 PM
im want this game do finished:


Looks very cool and the scrolling is very fast and silky smooth.

Actuelly the team behind it could do some fun of a C64 Jungool using the same engine.....

its a instant buy when they release it (the digital version).
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2017, 08:31:38 PM
im want this game do finished:


Looks very cool and the scrolling is very fast and silky smooth.

Actuelly the team behind it could do some fun of a C64 Jungool using the same engine.....

its a instant buy when they release it (the digital version).


Oh, yes I heard of that one, courtesy of twitter probably, looks superb! There has been a few homebrews for c64/cpc/zx that I played lately (check that link I posted before and above) and all very nicely done, if some of those were released back in '86...maaan, they would be super rich, Ferrari and all.
They just need 'Hotline' to crack them. :P

One very interesting C64 is called 'MAH', very well put together albeit a bit tricky. Another one (also on ZX) is called 'Zombie Terror', like Jaws kinda adventure but zombies, nicely done. Also nice ZX adventure - 'Sam Mallard – The Case of the Missing Swan.', very cool looking. I also found for CPC some kickass games like 'Doomsday-Lost Echoes', looks so beautiful, the palette and all, 'Hirehare' one of my favorite games lately, 'Golden Tail' and one called 'Magica' very nice looking platformer, I don't think even c64 version could look so nice, check them out they are all really interesting.

EDIT: Forgot, but one really interesting NES homebrew I'm currently playing is called 'zooming secretary', very, veeeery nice and cool looking, beats so many commercial releases, again, the stuff people do nowadays, check it out >> http://shiru.untergrund.net

Also, dunno if you played but I had a blast with Sonic on A2600 homebrew and I never even liked sonic games that much but playing this on fricken A2600 was a blast, check >> https://tinyurl.com/n3o2b6a (this is a long demo as they also sell a cartridge but all that I have left from A2.. is a broken Joystick :P).

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2017, 09:56:07 PM
we should create a thread with good retro games (C64, Spectrum, Amstrad) and all. There is great old/new games out here. That even im have not played much games here to recently (only some VR games throught).

Im also liked a Left 4 Dead demake for NES that came out for few years ago. Here its of course a demake, not a remake. hehe. Jungool for C64 (or Amstrad) would been a demake. Yes graphics can been quite better on Amstrad than C64 with right hands, even its missing all the hardware bells than C64 had. Jungool could also been cool on that machine as a none scrolling game (flip screen).

Recently im played few xbox games. Im got really surpriced over Marvel Legends on Xbox, which was a pretty good x-men game (im just tested those due one of my friends was xmen fan). Im did not like the officiel xmen game very much.

Im liked Sam Journey so much and was thinking, that engine is the closest that would could "port" to Jungool 64 really.



If Jungool could stay as whole single screen none scrolling game, then Jungool would been very cool to Amstrad.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 08, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
Well, we can mention the other homebrews here without creating new threads, it's all about the same retro topic anyway so while we're at it - might keep it all together.
It is surprising how many good homebrews in past years have emerged and how many cpc games especially have higher quality than games I used to see back in the day (I knew only one person back in 80s who had cpc :P). One other game I forgot, 'Outlaws' for cpc, something like Prohibition or say Operation wolf but you can see your character as you roll about, nice palette and sprites as well.
There is a bunchola of talented people doing really smooth stuff out there for olde machines. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 08, 2017, 05:53:06 AM
Operation Wolf Is a flod good game on all home machines. Amstrad and Spectrum is all scrolled in tiles, include sprites. Howover its scroll fast, which is the reason you does not notice it. Yes its sad many Amstrad games was bad Spectrum port in the days. Its could being much more. Operation Wolf is a good one.

The funny thing about the C64 version, the static screen on the right did also moved (due hardware scrolling), which means the programmer needs to preshift the charset to get the hud static. Im also pretty sure the ammo counter is a multiplexed sprites all the way down to cover artifacts its might have created behind the "moving" static screen.....
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 08, 2017, 07:54:28 PM
Now that you mentioned it, OW did seems to have a lot of tearing and flickers, but in the heat of the battle one can assign that to the effect of the freshly thrown hand grenade. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 09, 2017, 04:12:54 AM
Couldn't resist. :)

Zx abomination...

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 09, 2017, 06:13:28 AM
oh bad, no C64?

hehe, its a great picture. its was something like that im would see on the first screen, inclusive on C64. Since platforms is not really needed. Its could been all "cut scene"/adventure talk scene here, while Wagga dont move. Wagga might need to been show, which means he might need to been moved more to the left to give area to Wagga and talk bobbles.

But anyway im do really love the picture and you should not do more to that, since its a proff of concept. Its was that im did have in mind.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Sokurah on April 09, 2017, 08:40:59 PM
Couldn't resist. :)

Zx abomination...
Looks like a self portrait. :)

...couldn't resist. ;) :) :)
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 09, 2017, 11:20:54 PM
Looks like a self portrait. :)

...couldn't resist. ;) :) :)

Well look what piggy stumbled about, get him SF! :P

But here's a passport pic, more accurate.

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 10, 2017, 10:02:49 AM
He might have been drunken somewhere in the Copenhagen..... if I'm can find him and not been taken by the police (hehe).

I'm like the spectrum (and the c64) version of the pictures.

The level would been part adventure and part action.
:-D  8)

Lobo, im hope its ok for you to post them in the offtypic glbasic forum.

Both pic is also excellent and is a fun compare C64 vs Spectrum one.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 10, 2017, 06:30:07 PM
He might have been drunken somewhere in the Copenhagen..... if I'm can find him and not been taken by the police (hehe).

He's probably hiding somewhere in the .... Baggrund! :P


Lobo, im hope its ok for you to post them in the offtypic glbasic forum.

Of course, go ahead. It is a strange difference between the spec/c64, not just color wise but the whole thing is as if it came from different planets. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 10, 2017, 07:34:40 PM
Yes some hate Spactrum and love C64, some other way. This screen show how different they can been and still both very good.

You really like Baggrund, hehe.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 10, 2017, 07:47:18 PM
Baggrund here and there. Even my hometome starts with Bag, hehe.

Yes some hate Spactrum and love C64, some other way. This screen show how different they can been and still both very good.

Don't say...it is the town of Baggitman! :P

For zx, since it uses single pixel unlike c64 doubled, a lot sharper sprites were possible and thus that part feels less chunky. But the color is always problematic, not just clashes but both bright/dim variation is really nonsexy where in c64 it works better, to me eyes at least. I think spectrum games in mono are much better than those which try to get various colors, less confusion that way. :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 10, 2017, 08:53:38 PM
I'm like those spectrum games who do have more focus on foreground rather than baggrund. Cybernoid is excellent example. You could avoid some color slashes a bit more on spectrum, but I'm still like it's, because it's look like it's done on purpose. :-).

So it's depend on game and genre. Many games used that quite bad, but many games also well designed around color clash limits me thinks.

Also Im are a bigger c64 than spectrum fan as well (mostly due sid), while sokky like Spectrum more.

Some people also don't like the c64 palette as well.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Sokurah on April 10, 2017, 09:06:56 PM
Some people also don't like the c64 palette as well.

Whaddya ya mean? ... it's fine.

... if you like brown. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 10, 2017, 09:24:02 PM
I'm like those spectrum games who do have more focus on foreground rather than baggrund. Cybernoid is excellent example. You could avoid some color slashes a bit more on spectrum, but I'm still like it's, because it's look like it's done on purpose. :-).

So it's depend on game and genre. Many games used that quite bad, but many games also well designed around color clash limits me thinks.

Also Im are a bigger c64 than spectrum fan as well (mostly due sid), while sokky like Spectrum more.

Some people also don't like the c64 palette as well.

Not just baggrund but......forgrunden as well. :)
Mono games or those with minimum colors tend to be more pleasing as otherwise spectrum can really mess up your eyes when some major color clashes happen. Say cyan in the back and just mono sprites could do charmy-marmy. But I do prefer c64 more in its chunkiness overall and not to mention music of course. :P

Whaddya ya mean? ... it's fine.

... if you like brown. :) :) :)

Where does that 'brown' myth comes from, I'm really curious. :P
Technical aspect of default c64 palette is dulled for sure but 'brown' is not prevalent at all, if any..it would be the yellow if not blue/light blue/light red so much visibly a part of almost any single and especially multicolor game. If you look at those pics above you'll see that even on default or darker  (not even to mention other possible palettes where brown is non-existent), there is hardly any overall brown to speak of, as in being the overall feel of the palette. Now I did notice, even recently with homebrew c64 games, that some people do prefer a lot of that brown color but that is mostly design choice, and not necessarily a limitation or absolute and only choice in commodore palette.

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 11, 2017, 06:06:32 AM
many games was in caves, which brown is of course by the design of the game. Same with dirt, which is allways brown. But C64 did only have two shades of that. Actuelly its have more gray palette than brown. But the gray palette might have distorted the picture more than brown did.

Im remember brown was one of the easier look on the eyes, which did not distort the picture that much, when played with a RF modulator, so its could been that reason.

Also there is a palette limits too: The unique color per tile must been from 0-7 in the normal charset mode, here the brown was not of them. The last bits was to detect the tile was a hires or a lowres tile.

Also C64 was also have a Extended Background Color Mode, which was not very much used. You can only use 64 tiles, but all colors can been used. Manic Miner could property have used that mode (as the original game property did).

Also some games could do raster interupts to change palette chross on the screen (Creatures example).....
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 11, 2017, 06:57:18 PM
Methinks...at some point some spectrum user saw the c64 (the machine, not the palette) and seeing it looked 'kinda brownish' decided that 'it is all brown'. There, mystery solved. :)

By Baggrund, as far as the overall feel goes, the brown would be the last color to think of, yellow/blue..those would be the colors to associate with c64 palette.

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on April 16, 2017, 08:04:56 PM
about the warhavk 8 pictures. Its those taken from emulators, if yes, which one?
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on April 17, 2017, 02:52:54 AM
about the warhavk 8 pictures. Its those taken from emulators, if yes, which one?

I don't think any available emulators out there can switch between palettes, only single color instances can be changed, such as is case with ccs64 and vice for example. To switch what is currently available, I used c64 drawing program called pixcen64 and took the screenshot there between default to godot, frodo, hq, etc..and for that reason I always keep the file saved (or in prg) so I can play with different palettes that way.
Some other painting tools of the kind offer similar option for changing palette on the go.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on May 14, 2017, 08:56:20 PM
By Baggrund, I did (or redid) a web version of a game I made million years and three days ago. It was done in C64 style with all the limits back then. Luckily I did save the pics in koala (one or two were strangely missing) so I was able to brush up some, or repair them and draw some more as originally this game had about 30 screens and now it has 52 glorious C64 colorific screens.

The game is really short adventure, based on old 'dicemen comic' thingie (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=specials&choice=diceman1 (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=specials&choice=diceman1)) where you read and throw dice as you battle the enemies and there were Judge Dredd, Nemesis, Rogue Trooper and Slaine. I took Dredd one (Judge Dredd in the House of Death) as I was hoping to find the easiest way to set up the dice throwing/world navigating system to be able to do some bigger games later on (eventually). It is almost like choose your own adventure with dice throwing and minimum object collecting thingie.

Anyhoo, check it out > https://www.spitoufs.com/dredd/

So far, FF/Chromium works as intended, Edge oddly won't play music/sfx even tho the tab is showing 'music playing' icon. It also wont show gl effects. I looked into a bloody config but there's nothing there except 'experimental support for js' + asmjs which are enabled so no clue (maybe adding switch at the end of shortcut might do). IE didn't try, Safari should work. If its slow, effects can be turned off with 'ENTER' (press K in menu for shortcut keys, press K again to close this window)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2na8ec7.png)

Methinks, gonna try slowly putting together some adventure of this kind and gameplay (press space/battle/do or die style) during the long lazy days on the beach. :P

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Sokurah on May 14, 2017, 09:10:25 PM
Looks great.  ;D
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on May 14, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
Looks great.  ;D

Thanx Piggy! :P

I really have to try to make some adventure of this kind (kinda easy going game) which hopefully can be played 'on the go' on phones as well and such fangled devices. Hmm..now I think, touch screen controls of a sort might be needed...

Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Lobo on May 23, 2017, 02:27:01 PM
Baggrund, here's some cool news, the olde bugger Sverx and his merry company have just released that Waimanu game on GBA cartridge, sold with box and all that goods stuff!
Here's the thingie ~

https://disjointedstudio.blogspot.it/2017/05/waimanu-gba-available-on-cartridge.html

and here it is in the store ~

https://www.pikointeractive.com/store.html#!/Waimanu-GBA/p/83099256/category=9430347

Cool stuff, eh? :P
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on May 23, 2017, 04:31:03 PM
yes very cold. just its bit sad they dosent wrote which country the site is based on. Import to EU in Denmark is 25%-40%, but the fee is very high to purchase a single item :P, which is alone about 25$ itself. Hence im newer purchase items from US and avoid it.

But very cool item and congratulations for him :-).

As im aware he live in Germany and im have no issues purchase from that country.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on May 23, 2017, 04:33:14 PM
Very nice. Very impressed...

Sadly, he has not been on here since September 2016 :(  :'(
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on May 23, 2017, 04:55:20 PM
Texas. Im do want  the item.

Im a day shall use www.shopusa.com or such service a day.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: Flash on May 23, 2017, 07:09:35 PM
I feel I should by one also.
Title: Re: Jungool c64
Post by: spacefractal on May 25, 2017, 10:01:54 PM
also someone can wipeout a cool name for this tune?