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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: PypeBros on February 21, 2018, 08:39:39 PM

Title: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 21, 2018, 08:39:39 PM
Hello, everyone.

I've been doing some NDS homebrew coding over the last 10 years. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm not willing to stop. Something with that machine makes me feel like I was programming a C64 with better everything. I've been developing games (https://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/search/label/download), but also Sprite/Tiles editor (https://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/p/sprite-editor.html), level map editor (https://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/p/level-editor-for-ds.html) and even an animation editor that suits my "art" style better.

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nxsxpnQRtyE/Vu7qbf2y4MI/AAAAAAAAGqI/pdvh1QuRURAOe6Fwcc6S32kFNjnScfYKA/s1600/usepunch.gif) (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-q3ncWzjOC9M/WTJ0O24lAEI/AAAAAAAAHiE/OQtEedznikQOkKDkvE53a3NAulvh0rAGgCLcB/s1600/splash.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/gqC5s.gif)

DL: School Rush (https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgametools/files/demo%20games/SchoolRush-NY2018.nds/download) -- Apple Assault (http://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgametools/files/demo%20games/AppleAssault16.zip/download)

So is there anybody here that still has a NDS ready for play testing ?
Is there anybody who would be interested by a few tutorials on the editors used to do this ?
I've started the process of presenting the source code of the game engine and the scripting used to create those games, one chunk at a time. Anybody interested by that ?

Anybody else still doing hobby (game?) development on the NDS platform ?
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: headkaze on February 21, 2018, 11:26:52 PM
Welcome to the boards PypeBros!

Just so everyone here knows PypeBros is a guy I've known on the gbadev forums for a long time. I thought why not invite him over here? :)

As for your awesome game mate... I don't actually have an NDS to test with at the moment. Hopefully some of the other guys on here do though?

Keep us updated on your progress it really does look like an awesome game.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 22, 2018, 09:29:21 PM
Welcome, Pype. :P

That looks cool, I think I saw your work on DS or such years ago but my memory is misty somewhat. :)
I still have me olde DS loaded with R4 (except when kids are chasing pokemans) loaded with a ton of homebrew, I can do testing if needed.
Dunno what is happening about DS nowadays, whether anyone is doing anything but I see that some of those sites are still active but likely more focused on 3ds and newer models. I know via twitter that smealum and some guys are doing some cracking and snapping around homebrew launchers for 3ds but can't tell exactly how as I don't have that one and such.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 22, 2018, 09:46:32 PM
Thank you both.

As for the game, this is so far two separate games. A trick of mine to keep the action focused on something that can be played for what it is rather than keeping the status "demo/preview" for years. I have however the dream to merge them in a coherent epic platformer somewhen.

For the DS, I got the later models (DSi and 3DS), and somehow see the updates of smealum and friends progress, but I can't get real interest towards that platform. First, because of the feeling that running homebrew on them is a constant battle against Nintendo upgrades. Compared to the ease of use of a R4 (clone), breaking one's way accross the security layers of the 3DS is non-trivial and often requires that you have the right firmware with the right cartridge at the right time. Given that it takes me between 3 and 5 years to make a game, the 3DS platform is therefore too volatile. And finally, I really love the tiles + sprites programming model used in the original NDS. Afaik, this is gone with the 3DS that looks like "just another openGL pipeline". I'm not even sure they still have the sound channels working like the NDS (except in NDS compatibility mode, of course).
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 22, 2018, 09:54:14 PM

For the DS, I got the later models (DSi and 3DS), and somehow see the updates of smealum and friends progress, but I can't get real interest towards that platform. First, because of the feeling that running homebrew on them is a constant battle against Nintendo upgrades. Compared to the ease of use of a R4 (clone), breaking one's way accross the security layers of the 3DS is non-trivial and often requires that you have the right firmware with the right cartridge at the right time.

That's exactly what I noticed too. The lack of people actually doing homebrew for later DS models (especially compared to how frickin enormous was DS scene)-due to constant breaking of launchers-due to nintendo patching and forced updates, it just looks like ongoing battle when you see that original DS works right off the bat-done deal kinda way. Kinda pity tho but it obviously less interest out there in making later models more 'homebrew' ready, except of course, for the work of smea and those other guys, so in turn it just feels academic now with patching/breaking/patching cycle but no actual support from people who would jump into it and make some games and such. :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 23, 2018, 06:40:16 PM
I was just looking This video about GBA homebrew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ncpBNHxJUg)... It's interesting how the guy presented homebrew in 200x as "a way for wannabe game developer to make a convincing portfolio" in an era where publishing on platforms like Steam was not an option. I'd say what exist today that gets the closest to NDS homebrew is #pico8. But man, I love the hardware of the NDS so much better, I can't convince myself to work on a fantasy console instead.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 23, 2018, 08:16:15 PM
Frankly, when I started messing with DS, I wanted to see things on it which were overlooked by Nintendo like a nice drawing app, text reader, crazy left field games and of course emulators as well (which of course I did not expect from nintendo). I never saw it really as a way to build portfolio of any kind but just join in and see what things people can do, which ended up being far more than I expected. Going through the library of homebrew released over the years, it always strikes me just how much passion was in there and I can hardly think anyone was really thinking of 'making it out there' with these little oddities (tho, some did happen to move from DS to more commercial waters like 'colors' did).

Why is pico called a console, btw (unless its just for fun)? I only had a passing glance at it but it looks like it works on desktop as usual (win or mac, dunno) in a fashion of those adventure type engines which requires the main program to distribute in order to load up games made with it? It does look interesting on its own but yeah, DS is something else... ;)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 23, 2018, 08:30:32 PM
What I found amazing about the NDS homebrew era, is how much diversity there was among the people participating, and yes, somehow the passion that was driving us. I mostly followed the French-speaking forums "dev-fr.org" and there were both young gamers porting their favourite flash game, seasoned programmers porting their nostalgic favourite games, young web developers making applications pretending that their NDS would be a hand-held personnal assistant (subway maps, etc.). Easily the whole range between 12 to 42 years old, I'd say.

I know some of them have moved to androïd development. One of them has entered Nintendo Research.

So, yes, granted the "making my portfolio for later" was likely not the motivation for most of us.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 23, 2018, 08:39:56 PM
Agreed, there were people of all different interests/backgrounds doing homebrew on ds, I remember working with Alekmaul who was into NES/GG/SMS or Kukulcan who is a CPC fanatic (:) ) or guys here more or less either C64 or ZX or something completely unlike Nintendo actually. And a funny thing is that they all stumbled on DS, far more than PSP tho PSP did have its own scene but incomparable in interest, quality and quantity (no offense tho, most of the output was really emulators from what I remember). I had PSP (and GP2X tho :) ) before DS but oddly ended up with DS at the end, so there's gotta be something more in there than just dual screens that made it so interesting.
 8)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: headkaze on February 23, 2018, 11:14:57 PM
I think there's been a huge missed opportunity for Nintendo over the years. Instead of making it easy for home brewers to write stuff for their hardware they do everything in their power to lock it down. I never could understand why Nintendo didn't embrace the home brew community. I understand the issues with piracy but if they made the hardware available for custom apps then perhaps there wouldn't be a need for hardware like the R4.

I actually really liked the GBA, since it's what got me started in the home brew scene, and then of course, the Nintendo DS. Writing Warhawk DS in 100% ARM ASM with Flash (with graphics by Lobo and music by SpaceFractal) was some of the most fun I've ever had and my first major collaboration. I think schools should be teaching kids ASM using the Nintendo DS. It is such a great way to learn low level programming and assembly. NDS is the last hardware, I believe, to support the 2D sprite system (based in part on the NES hardware), and in addition introduced basic 3D hardware. With Warhawk DS we used the 2D hardware while smealum's impressive Arsenal DS used the 3D hardware. I think later Nintendo hardware removed the 2D system which is a great shame as it's such a great way to learn game programming.

Incidentally we did get a chance to play with the NDS's 3D hardware when we started playing with Jungool (originally called Triball). Unfortunately though with the limitations of the hardware it didn't fit well with that sort of game (Box2D physics / large painted backgrounds rather than tiles). But not only did we use the NDS for an early prototype of Jungool we also started an early version of Windoze Solitaire on it. Both of these games ended up being ported and released to Apple's iOS.

Over the years it has got to the point where I've given up on Nintendo and do not want to support them anymore. I don't like closed systems. I've also moved away from iOS to Android for the same reason. But as far as writing games both Flash and I have moved on from ASM / C++ to C# and Unity. That being said with hardware like the NEXT there are still opportunities to work on limited hardware. For me personally though I want to concentrate on cross-platform engines and not dedicate myself to any particular company or hardware.

I do understand the lure of the NDS and so I can't really knock it. It's just a shame that unlike most other platforms Nintendo doesn't seem to think budding developers are a valuable asset to have.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 24, 2018, 02:36:46 AM
I think there's been a huge missed opportunity for Nintendo over the years. Instead of making it easy for home brewers to write stuff for their hardware they do everything in their power to lock it down. I never could understand why Nintendo didn't embrace the home brew community. I understand the issues with piracy but if they made the hardware available for custom apps then perhaps there wouldn't be a need for hardware like the R4.

Yep, they really could've been the first to actually grab a few developers outside the 'usual suspects' as there was no way for them to stop ongoing print of various slot1 cards and thus piracy. They could've legitimize the games they thought 'fitting' their req out of such a huge catalog of homebrews, offer developers a chance to be visible at least for a moment, but no. Methinks they only started doing something of the kind with Wii by the end of its life cycle which is not much cause until then both MS and Sony have decided that its smarter move to look upon smaller developers instead ignoring them (plus Wii died  ;D ). Dunno how it is now for Switch, I notice from time to time that some smaller devs are getting on the platform but..could be 'invitation only' or 'only famous/popular/whatever' criteria.  :(

I actually really liked the GBA, since it's what got me started in the home brew scene, and then of course, the Nintendo DS. Writing Warhawk DS in 100% ARM ASM with Flash (with graphics by Lobo and music by SpaceFractal) was some of the most fun I've ever had and my first major collaboration. I think schools should be teaching kids ASM using the Nintendo DS. It is such a great way to learn low level programming and assembly. NDS is the last hardware, I believe, to support the 2D sprite system (based in part on the NES hardware), and in addition introduced basic 3D hardware. With Warhawk DS we used the 2D hardware while smealum's impressive Arsenal DS used the 3D hardware. I think later Nintendo hardware removed the 2D system which is a great shame as it's such a great way to learn game programming.


Yeah, that was fun, only now do I realize what was actually possible on that *little* system, I mean we did push some major stuff in there which I then took for granted but seeing now all sorts of limits on various other systems, must say that was really powerful stuff.

Over the years it has got to the point where I've given up on Nintendo and do not want to support them anymore. I don't like closed systems. I've also moved away from iOS to Android for the same reason. But as far as writing games both Flash and I have moved on from ASM / C++ to C# and Unity. That being said with hardware like the NEXT there are still opportunities to work on limited hardware. For me personally though I want to concentrate on cross-platform engines and not dedicate myself to any particular company or hardware.

I do understand the lure of the NDS and so I can't really knock it. It's just a shame that unlike most other platforms Nintendo doesn't seem to think budding developers are a valuable asset to have.


Yeah, as I mentioned they did have *some kinda* program for smaller guys since Wii, I even signed up to see what is it about and how it works, just out of interest and dunno, maybe if they have the same rules (no real rules really, just must conform to nintendo standards really but even that is a grey area-like family oriented, blahblah) for that Switch..maybe it would be worth it. But yeah, nowadays, for most of people its really much easier solution to bloody go cross platform, make desktop games and if opportunity arises perhaps a port to console A or B.

I find stuff like Next interesting too, tho..a bit cautious about it still, don't wanna see it end up as '5 devs who got kit made 5 games and that is all, goodnight' kinda scenario, methinks they will really need to pull people from the outside which is not easy if larger groups of people find the platform to be some 'odd retro thing with limited life span'. For me, smaller fun games on limited systems is fine and the rest...straight to desktop baby, hit Windows and if more than 5 people who have OSX and 3 who have Linux anything raise hand, the better. :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on February 24, 2018, 10:27:07 AM
Welcome, Pype  :)

I still have my NDS and still remember everything about how to program it (well, quite... ;) ). It's a shame the NDS scene disappeared so quicky and, well, I agree the 3DS hasn't the same charm. For instance, I greatly prefer coding on bare metal, which is something you can't do on a 3DS, if I got it correctly. Also, if you're interested in GBA too, it's just slightly less powerful - of course has a single screen too, but it's nonetheless interesting to program (the most important difference IMHO is that on GBA you've got a ROM cartridge, not a filesystem storage, which means you simply don't need to get data from disk to RAM, and also that your code won't be limited by RAM too...)

OK, let me know if you need more details :)

Cheers
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on February 24, 2018, 06:23:40 PM
dont forget we also created Manic Miner - The Lost Levels for DS. What a fun project its was. Im still thinks its was that game im did have most fun to do music with. Not Jungool, which sadly (with Winsol) does no longer work on current devices. iOS11 nuked 32bit support, which cause both games no longer works (they dont even show on AppStore at all).

Yes DS have something others Nintendo dosent have, and Nintendo try to compact them. Howover its property best to support a device, which Nintendo does no longer support for, here DS can still been great.

howover im have stopped both Android and iOS due various issues, property when Apple dedicated my Mac was too old, then im gave up. 64bit was also a hell as well. On Android glbasic is actuelly required to been moved to a Android Studio project, if its gonna to move with newest SDK, but im diddent do that. Android can also been hell to code for, due various devices, compatible etc.

That means im pulled my games out of Google Play, and also soon iOS later this year (im wont update them anymore). Then its Steam all the way.

PS. Yes im saw your PM. The music you heard is from a old Space taxi remake, that is also defuct as well. You cant play it anymore. Its was wrote in Java 1.4 (and Flash 5), and was a inspiration from the Amiga version of Space Taxi (which was a PD game by Andreas). But its a game im plans to recreate again on Next and/or Windows. Im have recently done a lots of Dual AY tunes from Dual AY, which is fun to do as well.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 25, 2018, 07:21:04 PM
Many of the reasons you mentioned echo in my own approach to homebrew. I find bare metal programming extremely enjoyable and satisfying, especially when you feel (like on the NDS) that everything is meant to make game programming easier. I mean, there is no need here to worry about syncrhonizing multiple threads between graphics rendering, gameplay logic, sound mixing and input probing -- part of which would require library tweaking on PC -- to get the job done. You have hardware do the sound mixing, you've got hardware doing image compositing ... And yes, I feel the appeal of programming a raster interrupt effect "for real, like an Amiga guru" (although I haven't really made use of it in my game engine).

I've asked the question to a few former members of dev-fr, none of them mentioned making up a portfolio. It was all about the freshness and the awesomeness of programming for a real console as opposed to database / webdesign / whatever daytim programming (but I've got no answers from then-teenagers so far)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 25, 2018, 09:54:06 PM
I still have me olde DS loaded with R4 (except when kids are chasing pokemans) loaded with a ton of homebrew, I can do testing if needed.

Some feedback on School Rush (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/2017/12/schoolrush-ny2018.html) would be welcome, indeed. I think the gameplay is almost done now, but it is hard to find people that can have a fresh eye on the game so late in the development. If you can convince you pokemen hunters to have a look at it, I'm curious to know how they reacted to the game as well (after all, 30+ people should only be the target audience for the "hardcade" mode ^^")
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 25, 2018, 11:44:44 PM
Some feedback on School Rush (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/2017/12/schoolrush-ny2018.html) would be welcome, indeed. I think the gameplay is almost done now, but it is hard to find people that can have a fresh eye on the game so late in the development. If you can convince you pokemen hunters to have a look at it, I'm curious to know how they reacted to the game as well (after all, 30+ people should only be the target audience for the "hardcade" mode ^^")

No problems, just give me the link and I'll try it out, perhaps pokemans enthusiasts can also give it a spin as I suspect they have better reflexes than I do nowadays. :D
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on February 26, 2018, 04:38:33 PM
just give me the link and I'll try it out

Doh. I just realised that the green "download" button on my blog post wasn't pointing to the the .nds file (https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgametools/files/demo%20games/SchoolRush-NY2018.nds/download). Silly me. That's now fixed, and I put the download links for both files on the top post of this thread as well.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 27, 2018, 01:34:11 AM
Doh. I just realised that the green "download" button on my blog post wasn't pointing to the the .nds file (https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgametools/files/demo%20games/SchoolRush-NY2018.nds/download). Silly me. That's now fixed, and I put the download links for both files on the top post of this thread as well.

Got it, will check it out tomorrow.  ;)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on February 28, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Alright, played both games on AK2 yesterday and today and its very impressive, gfx/music and controls, very smooth. I'm not too good with platformers anymore frankly tho I did get to level 2 in school rush. The only thing in school rush is the lack of energy bar of the sort, can't tell how long I have to live and perhaps, when you're hit to give it like a 1-2 seconds invulnerability to pass the enemies which are too close to you, otherwise they keep hurting you as it is now (if they're too close you are trapped basically). But, yeah, all in all very cool games.  8)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 01, 2018, 04:44:41 PM
The only thing in school rush is the lack of energy bar of the sort, can't tell how long I have to live
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X0u_FOfT9Ps/Vy3O47QVSKI/AAAAAAAAGvk/sQCC8vmhLdM5D92xjrNUOajKtrAvPlKQACLcB/s1600/hud2.gif)

Oh, actually, there is an energy bar. This is the Bilou-blue bookmark on the bottom screen.
Quote
perhaps, when you're hit to give it like a 1-2 seconds invulnerability to pass the enemies which are too close to you, otherwise they keep hurting you as it is now
The initial gameplay for Bilou was more trying to make you think about how to move past enemies (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/2008/07/un-peu-de-level-design.html) and had a puzzle aspect. It is almost inexistant in SchoolRush, though, so I guess I could relax the gameplay a little bit and provide some more invulnerability frames for the player.

Glad you liked it, anyway ^_^ It's an honor from someone who worked on the WarHawk port ;)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on March 01, 2018, 09:00:23 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X0u_FOfT9Ps/Vy3O47QVSKI/AAAAAAAAGvk/sQCC8vmhLdM5D92xjrNUOajKtrAvPlKQACLcB/s1600/hud2.gif)

Oh, actually, there is an energy bar. This is the Bilou-blue bookmark on the bottom screen. The initial gameplay for Bilou was more trying to make you think about how to move past enemies (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/2008/07/un-peu-de-level-design.html) and had a puzzle aspect. It is almost inexistant in SchoolRush, though, so I guess I could relax the gameplay a little bit and provide some more invulnerability frames for the player.

Ah, cool, my mistake, I kept looking at the top screen and totally missed the bookmark. :)

As for invulnerability, something simple like 1 sec delay so player can jump over the enemy and escape in narrow places (like between two walls and such).
It is a very cool game, obviously a lot of work has gone into it, pity this was not released back in the heyday of DS but its never too late. :P

Glad you liked it, anyway ^_^ It's an honor from someone who worked on the WarHawk port ;)

Thanks, always nice to hear people remember some work from 300 years ago, or was it just yesterday? :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 05, 2018, 09:18:32 AM
Thanks, always nice to hear people remember some work from 300 years ago, or was it just yesterday? :P

To me, it seems like it was before the latest ice age  ;D
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 05, 2018, 03:37:20 PM
To me, it seems like it was before the latest ice age  ;D

Yeah, you completely changed to another platform, now, haven't you ?
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 06, 2018, 08:32:13 AM
Yeah, you completely changed to another platform, now, haven't you ?

The matter is that by the time I had learnt all the DS and GBA's secrets (LOL) - gbadev community disappeared, and I felt like speaking to the desert. When I found my old-lost SMS I discovered a great community (SMSPower.org) and I dove into it. Anyway now that I learnt all the SMS/GG secrets I feel I need something new to play with. I'm reading MegaDrive technical documents these days, let's see what it brings :D
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 06, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
Anyway now that I learnt all the SMS/GG secrets I feel I need something new to play with. I'm reading MegaDrive technical documents these days, let's see what it brings :D

Makes a lot of sense. I felt some attraction towards NES (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/search/label/NES) myself over the years, although it remained theoretical. For my graphical style and my brother's musical scores, the NDS feels best suited. I could likely do it on SNES as well (or SMD), but I bet I'd be consuming so much time getting familiar with the hardware/sdk that the game development effort would be reset again. If I ever make a SNES port of some of my games, I want it to run with graphics made with Sprite Editor for DS ;-)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Sokurah on March 06, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
The matter is that by the time I had learnt all the DS and GBA's secrets (LOL) - gbadev community disappeared, and I felt like speaking to the desert.

I know how you feel. I'm currently working on an arcade game (for actual arcade hardware, so I test using MAME) but I have NO idea how big the community is for things like this, so I'm just plowing ahead with it and trying to make a good game. Maybe there's only 10 people out there that will enjoy it ... but that doesn't really matter as I'm mostly doing it for myself anyway :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 07, 2018, 11:17:33 AM
yeah but I think that not having at least a few people that you can exchange opinion with, ask feedback/support... well, it makes that much harder and less intriguing, even if I agree we mostly do what we do for our own enjoyment...

(does that sentence makes any sense?)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 07, 2018, 04:42:06 PM
Seconding sverx here. I wasn't too worried about the GBA/DS community disappearing as long as I had workmates having a linker-capable NDS themselves and being happy to give my new builds a try every now and then. Since I changed to another workplace, having noone really noticing that I'm doing a release is a bit disappointing. Rather than enjoying the feedbacks, it turns out like "why am I even doing that" blues. That hopefully goes away when I have the opportunity to get actual people playing the game, hopefully.

It has been even more exacerbated these last years as I'm mostly pushing updates to the gameplay. As you all know, we tend to turn expert in our own games and get blind to their own flaws. I'm extremely honoured to have received detailed feedback from seasoned game designers (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/search/label/feedback). But each of these were quite energy-consuming to get, and did not necessarily came where I most needed it.  

(yay. I'm now running on ZX80!)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on March 08, 2018, 08:30:56 PM
yeah but I think that not having at least a few people that you can exchange opinion with, ask feedback/support... well, it makes that much harder and less intriguing, even if I agree we mostly do what we do for our own enjoyment...

(does that sentence makes any sense?)

I know how you feel. I'm currently working on an arcade game (for actual arcade hardware, so I test using MAME) but I have NO idea how big the community is for things like this, so I'm just plowing ahead with it and trying to make a good game. Maybe there's only 10 people out there that will enjoy it ... but that doesn't really matter as I'm mostly doing it for myself anyway :)

Ye, even tho a lot of people do it for their own pleasure, you still need some audience to share that with. To me, the size of the audience is less important than passion behind it, tho truth to be told - DS scene had both, numbers and actual passionate people about it, so many who didn't mind swapping that slot 1 card (or 2-3) on the train while commuting, just to try out your latest beta. That kinda thing is worth it methinks.

 For example, I was downloading a lot of A2600 homebrew from atariage for years and at first it was a really small community which grew in time to get numbers as well as passion and yea, I mean who in his right mind would be trying to push A2600 game in 21 century unless there was real  :-* behind it. It goes as far as people still printing cartridges for some of these games, limited as it is but there is always someone who wants that and its worth doing it even for only 20 peeps.
So, methinks, doing SMS or Z80 arcade or even DS/GBA today (well Sverx and co released Waimanu recently on GBA cart) is worth it really if there is still at least a few passionate folks out there.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 08, 2018, 08:46:11 PM
Yep, the current rise of the NES homebrew (and apparently SMS homebrew) communities make me hope that I'm not developing for me alone, and that some day, people who grew with the Nintendo DS will enter a part of their lifetime where they'll want to code for it themselves. We had a super-strong community. It was so amazing that I just had to post a news on one French board to see it translated in 5 or 6 different languages and relayed over the world without having to raise the smallest finger.

I'm convinced there are some people still interested, but we no longer have any place to meet, imho. Partly because there wasn't one place to meet in the first time: we were so many that we could simply keep in touch with our local peers without worrying about building a worldwide community.

Someone (I think one of you) mentioned two other person still doing homebrew for DS (or GBA?) over the last week. Maybe on twitter. But our new communication channels have a flaw when it comes to memory. Impossible to force the websites to show it once more...
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on March 08, 2018, 09:41:22 PM
Yep, the current rise of the NES homebrew (and apparently SMS homebrew) communities make me hope that I'm not developing for me alone, and that some day, people who grew with the Nintendo DS will enter a part of their lifetime where they'll want to code for it themselves. We had a super-strong community. It was so amazing that I just had to post a news on one French board to see it translated in 5 or 6 different languages and relayed over the world without having to raise the smallest finger.

I'm convinced there are some people still interested, but we no longer have any place to meet, imho. Partly because there wasn't one place to meet in the first time: we were so many that we could simply keep in touch with our local peers without worrying about building a worldwide community.

Someone (I think one of you) mentioned two other person still doing homebrew for DS (or GBA?) over the last week. Maybe on twitter. But our new communication channels have a flaw when it comes to memory. Impossible to force the websites to show it once more...

I did pick up some NES homebrew in recent years, not as much output as say C64/ZX or possibly others but it keeps going, methinks the interest is rising up somewhat as it goes.

You're right about meeting place, it is strange really..back on DS there was a choice, I know Dev.fr is where I could find Kukulcan, Alekmaul, Mollusk, smealum etc..I could see them on PlayerAdvance too as links were there, GBAdev and DSscene for English oriented news but there were other 'general' sorta 'fire and forget' places with forums/comments at least and it did work methinks.

Somehow..these new social places were supposed to be a better solution in terms of bringing people together but after using Twitter for years and consequently avoiding FB for years and looking at the state of forums at some places, I am bloody convinced that IRC chat channel is damn far more clear and superior and effective way to put people/information together than all this shit if you pardon me French.

Social media outlets (as you noticed) treat conversation pieces as 'news' which is bullshit and as news tends to be replaced instantly with newly new news to keep you glued to the platform, the relevant information from just yesterday - disappears - before you even get to bloody see it! Instead you are force fed some stupid meme from people who should know better than that, and loosing any sense of connection with 'what you want to see or find'. I mean, I had to remove a bunch of people on twitter cause they kept spamming some silly social - gamers connect - platforms nonsense that I don't care about a bit because its all about shifting your warez to other people who shift their warez and no one gives a shite, and at the same time I would see Sokurah's tweet, for which I infinitely care much more, in like 3 days after or sometimes lost for good??

So..yeah, its a bit of a problem, because eventually people who are interested in stuff we all do might never see it. Like, the other day this guy mentions that he never knew there was Warhawk on DS, I mean its not too late to discover of course, but yea, it points to that problem of disseminating information proper and I'm afraid there is no gaming outlet out there which is doing it right anymore (in my opinion, everyone else can disagree) as the focus is either concentrated on one platform only or just bloody the good old fashion popularity contest as usual, which is really *meh* and unfunny in 2018. :P

Also..dammit, dunno if its just me, but passion from yesterday in so many people have been replaced with downright cynicism, dunno why and naming no names but wtf mario. :) :)

Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 09, 2018, 08:52:01 AM
I think gbadev.org's forum is still the place where DS/GBA homebrewers meet - it's just that we (they?) are very few remaining. I'm still checking it on an almost daily basis, DWedit and guauu do appear often, ant512 is still releasing stuff. Beside those (and you) - I guess I didn't forget anyone else  :'(

As for SMS/NES/ZX/etc homebrew, I guess you've read Epyx 'call to arms'... right?  :D
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Sokurah on March 09, 2018, 10:43:51 AM
...I had to remove a bunch of people on twitter cause they kept spamming some silly social - gamers connect - platforms nonsense that I don't care about a bit because its all about shifting your warez to other people who shift their warez and no one gives a shite, and at the same time I would see Sokurah's tweet, for which I infinitely care much more, in like 3 days after or sometimes lost for good??
Aww, thanks  :-*
I don't read much Twitter anymore. A year ago I would check up on my entire feed since the previous day, in the morning when I got to work, but I've stopped doing that and now only scroll through a couple of screens a couple of times a day, so I'm guessing I miss a lot. But there's SO much noise that I just can't be arsed to spend the time anymore. A have two columns for tweets by Lobo and other artist I've worked with (Redballoon) and that'll have to do  ;D
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on March 09, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
Aww, thanks  :-*
I don't read much Twitter anymore. A year ago I would check up on my entire feed since the previous day, in the morning when I got to work, but I've stopped doing that and now only scroll through a couple of screens a couple of times a day, so I'm guessing I miss a lot. But there's SO much noise that I just can't be arsed to spend the time anymore. A have two columns for tweets by Lobo and other artist I've worked with (Redballoon) and that'll have to do  ;D


You know it's your twerking skills mate, can't have a day start without it. :P
But ye, white noise thingie, nowadays its so damn thick that Leatherface gave up after breaking his chainsaw while trying to cut through it and he can't be wrong methinks. The sorry ass deal is that sort of communication was supposed to be *better* and more productive and informative but fell flat on arse like this >  :) :)


As for SMS/NES/ZX/etc homebrew, I guess you've read Epyx 'call to arms'... right?  :D

What 'call to arms' is that, never heard of such a thingie?  ???
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Sokurah on March 09, 2018, 05:54:51 PM
What 'call to arms' is that, never heard of such a thingie?  ???

Doh! Yeah, I forgot to ask about that too.
So, sverx, spill them beans  :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 09, 2018, 07:12:32 PM
http://www.smspower.org/forums/16961-LookingForProgrammersToWorkOnExcitingNewProjects  ... and similar threads on other forums...
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 09, 2018, 09:17:22 PM
Amazing!
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on March 09, 2018, 09:47:32 PM
http://www.smspower.org/forums/16961-LookingForProgrammersToWorkOnExcitingNewProjects  ... and similar threads on other forums...

Well..that is pretty darn cool. Hope this really works out for people who join in and re-do some of these oldies titles (didn't know that Barbarian is Epyx tho, maybe forgot) on different systems and perhaps release some carts as well.  8)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Flash on March 10, 2018, 04:49:26 PM
Just putting this out there...

Looking for code for fast directional fire. ie. from x1,y1, heading to x2,y2 and beyond. Tried several ways of doing it in z80, but the problem is accuracy and maintaining a constant speed at any direction. I want to avoid Bressenhams as the overhead is too much, and angle calculation is overkill also. Using 8.8 fixed point, you can get an object to travel directly to another by using the x1-y1 x2-y2 offsets and using the sign. But, the downside is the the offsets are not normalised. So, the closer x2,y2 is to x1,y1 then the slower the step.

Anyway, if anyone spots anything anywhere - I would certainly be interested.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 10, 2018, 07:20:18 PM
I don't know how much the Z80 loves divisions, but if you scale it to one block horizontally, the corresponding vertical offset could be used to lookup by how much the values need to be scaled to have unit norm, right ?
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Flash on March 10, 2018, 07:57:18 PM
I did try that

I took the greater of x or y step, made it 1 (for the speed) and then kept the difference between the original number and 1. I then used that to scale the lower number by the same fraction. Almost worked, but precision was lost.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Flash on March 10, 2018, 08:02:23 PM
Though, with all the z80 code that's been made, I was hoping there would be an efficient and fast routine already written. Really rather not reinvent the wheel.

ps. Soooooooooo easy on ARM :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 10, 2018, 08:20:27 PM
is the distance covered per frame important ? if not. I'd suggest to advance one pixel at a time, either horizontally or vertically depending of whether you're above or below the line between x1,y1 and x2,y2. That way, you're sure you keep precision.
(ps. Maybe this should be all moved into another post, though. It has definitely no more relationship to homebrews on DS :P)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: headkaze on March 10, 2018, 09:17:58 PM
Though, with all the z80 code that's been made, I was hoping there would be an efficient and fast routine already written. Really rather not reinvent the wheel.

Since you're probably already using lookup tables for sine/cosine. I would just use good ol' trig.

First you need to get the angle between two vectors.
Code: [Select]
public double GetAngle(Vector2 a, Vector2 b)
{
    double angle = Math.Atan2(b.Y, b.X) - Math.Atan2(a.Y, a.X);
    return angle;
}

Z80 implementation of Atan2 routine example here (https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/8-bit-atan2)

Once you have your angle (which is in radians) you can move towards it.

Code: [Select]
x += speed * Math.Cos(angle);
y += speed * Math.Sin(angle);

Z80 implementation http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Programming:Sin/Cos_calculation.

Of course there is always a compromise between speed and accuracy. It might be too slow for your needs. Anyway it's worth a try at least.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 11, 2018, 08:57:53 AM
You could also define a travel distance after which Angle gets re-evaluated. That way, you'll avoid the fact that lack of precision on sin(a) and cos(a) accumulates over time.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on March 13, 2018, 03:54:15 PM
I did try that
I took the greater of x or y step, made it 1 (for the speed) and then kept the difference between the original number and 1. I then used that to scale the lower number by the same fraction. Almost worked, but precision was lost.

You should take x*x + y*y and that would be the square of the distance, and scale to 1 that (by performing a square root of that and a division, if it's feasible - you might want to LUT that...)

Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 16, 2018, 04:17:27 PM
I'm still checking it on an almost daily basis, DWedit and guauu do appear often, ant512 is still releasing stuff. Beside those (and you) - I guess I didn't forget anyone else  :'(
Glad you mentioned them. I haven't got any contact with DWedit or guauu, but now ant512 has sprites of mine in his "Amazing Mazes" game ;-). And there will be some music too. Hope to see that released soon ...

(did I mentioned I love mazes ?)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on March 31, 2018, 09:30:41 AM
I was toying with the idea of generating SNES/MD code (http://sylvainhb.blogspot.be/2018/03/aladdin-sources-analysis.html) for my animations ... But it looks like I'm over-estimating the powers of those 16-bit machine. At least half the powers of a GBA, I'd say. If there ever is Bilou on SNES or MegaDrive, that won't be in 2018, I'm afraid ...
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on April 03, 2018, 10:03:16 AM
I don't know exactly what you need to do, but the MD is quite powerful. I wouldn't say 50% the GBA, though - that's lower IMHO.
Please explain what you need to do, we can discuss the thing together :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 04, 2018, 08:15:29 AM
You should checkout the OverDrive and OverDrive 2 demos that came to MegaDrive:




Howover the last one used undocumented features, which does not work on all Mega Drives, but only on some as im have read. So its would newer works as a game (the music alone is also 3.5mb out of 8mb total).

But.... Its cool anyway.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on April 04, 2018, 08:21:18 PM
Please explain what you need to do, we can discuss the thing together :)
Well, I thought the major barrier would be the CPU speed. I'm running bytecode-based expressions evaluation on the NDS (at 66MHz) and it works correctly, and I expected the need to convert that into native code expressions (thus compiling the former into e.g. 68000 machine code).

But I'm realizing that even the art itself might be over the specs. I loaded 64K of tiles for the playground, almost another 64K for the parallax background and yet another 64K for the sprites. I would have to re-think the art so that it works in 4bpp, first, but even that might not be enough to fit everything into a 16-bit console's video memory, at least not on SNES (https://twitter.com/UnDisbeliever/status/980001388062130178). I couldn't work with such "static tilesets" on 16-bit. I'd need a strong algorithm to move data between ROM and VRAM, and tracking what will be referenced next and what isn't. And maybe even delaying the transition to an attack move of a monster if the DMA pipeline is already full for this frame. Significant work, thus.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on April 05, 2018, 09:04:03 AM
On a MegaDrive, you've got 64KB total, but part of it is reserved to tilemaps and SAT (OAM).
https://twitter.com/i_am_sverx/status/970600835561508864

edit: oh, sure you've seen that already.  :-[

Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on April 06, 2018, 04:43:43 AM
On a MegaDrive, you've got 64KB total, but part of it is reserved to tilemaps and SAT (OAM).
https://twitter.com/i_am_sverx/status/970600835561508864

edit: oh, sure you've seen that already.  :-[


indeed ;) but I overlooked the numbers :-/
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on April 06, 2018, 08:28:29 AM
Of course you need a total overhaul, but 64KB VRAM are enough to build quite complex backgrounds. Also, tiles are 16 colors (*) but you've got 4 palettes.
(*) 15+1 common, actually...
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on April 06, 2018, 02:02:57 PM
like 4 palettes for sprites + 4 other palettes for BG ?
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on April 06, 2018, 02:10:54 PM
like 4 palettes for sprites + 4 other palettes for BG ?

mmm... no.
4 palettes total. Each of them can be used for BG tiles and/or for sprites (but some colors do have special effects (https://twitter.com/i_am_sverx/status/972059221473808389)...)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on April 06, 2018, 03:26:32 PM
ouch. I'm not sure I have the desired level to convert the pixels of my SchoolZone to such limited rules yet. Not that it makes GameScript-to-68000 machine code less interesting, but it would require a different art set, for sure.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 06, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
If patience you have, from scratch is the only way to go. :P
You both have seen that 'Tanglewood' which is for SMD/Genesis? That looks quite funky, granted I do notice a lot of repeating tiles and just a few unique ones but clever use of less tiles with some 'trial error arse pain' and planning in advance can do the 'closest thing' to your original idea. The only question is 'how close' are you aiming, sometimes downscaling things creates a completely different thing than what you planned to do and you might not want to compromise.
We've all played some downscaled ports from one platform to another and sometimes the difference is so huge in limitations that it almost feels like there was no point in doing this at all.

I think if one was to jump to some new platform with very specific limits, perhaps the best way would be actually to design a new game around these limitations to learn the tricks of hardware to avoid disappointment, not to mention many hours spent for work that might be better fitting on different platform altogether, Buddha be Blessed. :P


mmm... no.
4 palettes total. Each of them can be used for BG tiles and/or for sprites (but some colors do have special effects (https://twitter.com/i_am_sverx/status/972059221473808389)...)

Frankly, this is not bad at all, I've seen and worked on worse limits. :P :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2018, 08:29:46 AM
yes, even Spectrum Next have some limits as well. That named game seens quite cool and yes (newer hear that before), well used of tiles and design well around limits to safe so much as possible. Howover the Titan Overdrive demo im named previous also show what the machine also can, even its will far too big to use it in a game.... but its a demo anyway and its on purpose in any demo.

All earlier machine have some sort of limits of course.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: PypeBros on April 07, 2018, 09:30:18 AM
Oh, I do not doubt I could do something nice and fun within 16-bit limitation. It's just that I couldn't do it as carefree-ly as I do on the DS. Just Bilou's hand would need 4 palettes (2 shades for Bilou, 2 shades for pendats) and same for Bilou's feet. That means I'm left with some 9 'free' colors per palette for everything else. Obviously, I'll have to plan the use of those colors so that I can have Bilou, inkjets, spongebops, structures and books all decently rendered. The game idea revolves around picking an object and carrying it around to create interesting situations. Like you can use a spons as an umbrella against inkjet's droplets. I cannot just swap in/out palettes of "monsters" in such a situation.

So, Yeah it can be done, Yeah, it is still very tempting, but it won't make a game available in short time and it won't make the animation system appealing immediately. I'm better to keep working on the NDS and focus on completing things in "hi-bit", imvho.

Oh, maybe I could swap between white (front, pendat) and lightblue (front, Bilou) to create the in-between used for pendat's rear hand. You see what I mean with "less carefree-ly". I'd like to keep the ability to decide that I need that book to be purple instead of red for whatever gameplay reason (e.g. because the book would collapse) until I'm more confident on my level designer skills.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2018, 11:50:18 AM
Oh, totally understood, that part with 'carefree' is the one I'm thinking of the most. That plus just how much you're willing to compromise, hard to decide sometimes. I would at best keep working on original (DS in your case) and slowly figure out just how to approach to downscaled version without too much grief.

But, yes, the flow you expect will likely not be there at least not until you get used to what limits you have and the colors in your case are as problematic as they would be for most of the games out there.

Here's to illustrate what I could do on Warhawk Next versus DS version. The left is DS and these two levels I wanted to recreate somehow for Next and here you can compare and see just how hard it was to get what was very easy flow on DS (I remember HK giving me a tool to count unique tiles and seeing like 40 free with ability to flip them was like 'MAN, I can do anything' moment) compared to a lot of restructuring and major ass compromise to get it in some way on the Next (the level on the right, I changed all the colors on that one 4 times but I could never get those metallic blue shades as they simply don't exist in Next palette). So, yeah it takes a lot of improvisation to get that 'feel' as right as possible.


(http://i66.tinypic.com/qps6y8.jpg)


Howover the Titan Overdrive demo im named previous also show what the machine also can, even its will far too big to use it in a game.... but its a demo anyway and its on purpose in any demo.

All earlier machine have some sort of limits of course.

Just saw that demo, it is brilliant but...as you said, demo is demo and game is something else (game perhaps :D). When you have specific thing in mind, say superman drawing, but the blue and red are missing from palette then you're screwed and have to go with alternative universe superheroes and make his costume pikachoo yellow instead which might be more than you're willing to compromise, although, I have this Japanese Batman of yore and Buddha be blessed I don't want to see him in any other way ever again! :)


(http://i65.tinypic.com/25slt1c.jpg)


Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2018, 12:52:34 PM
Hehe batman was blue in the NES game, due limited palette.

Also superman was awful to Nintendo 64, while the Ps2/gamecube works great. Also for some reason I liked the atari 2600 superman game and could been fun to remake that. Even the game is limited, it's was fun to fly around. What that let out game down is the confusion map.  But I'm do use two subway screen to get to either the jail with a cruck or fix the bridge screen.....

Yes... Some ports change the palette quite a lots in a game.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2018, 01:38:46 PM
Hehe batman was blue in the NES game, due limited palette.

Also superman was awful to Nintendo 64, while the Ps2/gamecube works great. Also for some reason I liked the atari 2600 superman game and could been fun to remake that. Even the game is limited, it's was fun to fly around. What that let out game down is the confusion map.  But I'm do use two subway screen to get to either the jail with a cruck or fix the bridge screen.....

Yes... Some ports change the palette quite a lots in a game.

Funny you mentioned that Atari Superman as I was playing it like last week with some other games and its not bad, I even fondly remember the C64 (1983 or so) Superman which was somewhat baffling in gameplay but zapping that green goblin or whatever the heck was that was somewhat strangely fun. :)
Tho..I did reminded myself that seriously, all nostalgia aside, 99 out of 100 Atari games were inexcusable trash. :)
I swear, I would look at the box and there would be Dragons, Knights, Spaceship, you put that cart and bloody hell..like yellow square goes from left to green square on the right and is killed instantly by a superb collision detection, like..wtf, where be dragons? :) :) Tho, I did fondly kept those blister inducing joysticks for longest time until Combat School on C64 killed them all.

But yes, palette wise, unless you're thinking like Japanese, you'll be in trouble while porting one thing to another. :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2018, 01:48:46 PM
hehe. im did remember im actuelly got completed Combat School on C64 (and that suparman game, but did have a quit every solid joystick. Im also remember that Superman game on C64 was also nice too, even its does have various bugs.

Im also played some Atari 2600 games using the Atari port adapter im just got last some weeks with a C64 joystick. Most graphics, if not all was designed by the programmer. Like me, im is also not as a greatest artist out here (hehe). Limited palette is all the fun when doing old stuff, 8 or 16bit. DS is a newer machine with full palette.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2018, 02:09:40 PM
hehe. im did remember im actuelly got completed Combat School on C64 (and that suparman game, but did have a quit every solid joystick. Im also remember that Superman game on C64 was also nice too, even its does have various bugs.

Im also played some Atari 2600 games using the Atari port adapter im just got last some weeks with a C64 joystick. Most graphics, if not all was designed by the programmer. Like me, im is also not as a greatest artist out here (hehe). Limited palette is all the fun when doing old stuff, 8 or 16bit. DS is a newer machine with full palette.

I did complete the CS as well..on the expense of like 4 joysticks killed, I mean..who the hell thought it was a good idea to design a software around destroying hardware? I swear, haha, the joystick manufacturers paid some of these guys back in the day to make games which destroy joysticks so they can sell more.
OK, JK..but yea, that was blistering barnacles time, all in all. :D

Atari tho, its not the graphics but it is more about games that utterly have no gameplay, I swear, majority is totally unplayable or rely on 'go left or right till collision kills you' concept. It's like 'Hey we have another game with a yellow box going left, there's only about 500 of them already on the market, what do we do...(other guy) hmmm...let's put a dragon on the cart!'. :)

And..I know it wasn't the machine to push something superb on it and programmers were probably as baffled as anyone else just why the hell is there another 'yellow box goes left' game so its not them to blame but most of them seriously never even bloody tried. If you look at what people do with Atari homebrew nowadays, yep, totally most of those guys back then didn't even bother. :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 07, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
the best company for me for Atari 2600 was property Activation (also in its time). They released many well designed games to Atari 2600. My favorit is of course HERO, but im also liked River Raid very much. Just sad its released very late on its life, when the game industry crashed.

Also.... Its same coder that did Superman, which much code actuelly came from Adventure. Im did my self really newer liked that game.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 07, 2018, 02:43:48 PM
the best company for me for Atari 2600 was property Activation (also in its time). They released many well designed games to Atari 2600. My favorit is of course HERO, but im also liked River Raid very much. Just sad its released very late on its life, when the game industry crashed.

Also.... Its same coder that did Superman, which much code actuelly came from Adventure. Im did my self really newer liked that game.

Activision, yea..almost like the only company back then. :)
River Raid was OK and HERO is not bad either, I guess there was about...6 games that were good (breakout included). :)

Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Flash on April 11, 2018, 05:49:49 PM
HERO is not bad either
HERO was and is an awesome game :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 11, 2018, 09:33:10 PM
Don't tell that to SF, besides Space Taxi that is all he plays. :P
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 12, 2018, 04:30:52 AM
hehe, last time was "Except you to Die" in VR. and, yes, HERO is a awesome (property my favorit from the time released) and yes control is a bit heavy, until you get used for it. im even did a little remake of it, back in 2009, using both original levels as well one area with own level. Im cant even play the Space Taxi remake anymore im did eailer, about around 16-17 years ago, so all java games is now removed from my webpage. Im do hope im can convert it to html5/JavaScript (checking sites about it) a day to play it again, but the original game used various webpages as well.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Sokurah on April 12, 2018, 06:52:54 AM
Don't tell that to SF, besides Space Taxi that is all he plays. :P

:) :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 13, 2018, 12:42:47 PM
Im do hope im can convert it to html5/JavaScript (checking sites about it) a day to play it again, but the original game used various webpages as well.

Dunno are there any wrappers for java to make either a desktop executable or html5 friendly but for what's worth you're probably better off doing it from the scratch for whatever platform you intended it. Now looking at HERO, you might reuse baggers code knowledge supersystem to even try to get Next version out of it. Both Spicy Taxi and Hero could do this way methinks.

Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: spacefractal on April 13, 2018, 01:58:27 PM
Cave Heroes still works nicely for Windows. But im have no donny clue why the download from my website newer worked in some years? No clue here, but its back again with full source (even mac and Linux downloads worked fine). So im have no plans to do a another HERO remake for Windows. Im do allways loved that game for sure.

btw we have talked a bit too much offtype, sorry about that. Howover for the palette debate, its same issue we will see on Next as we will see on Megadrive. So the Warhawk compare is fully valid. Its does require some planning with limited palette.
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 15, 2018, 05:06:26 PM
Cave Heroes still works nicely for Windows. But im have no donny clue why the download from my website newer worked in some years? No clue here, but its back again with full source (even mac and Linux downloads worked fine). So im have no plans to do a another HERO remake for Windows. Im do allways loved that game for sure.

btw we have talked a bit too much offtype, sorry about that. Howover for the palette debate, its same issue we will see on Next as we will see on Megadrive. So the Warhawk compare is fully valid. Its does require some planning with limited palette.

Yar, it will always be a struggle regardless, I mean DS is bloody powerful so going back from that to late 80s and trying to refit some things is really a big jump and possibly 'tears in rain' inducing as well. :P

Tho..would like to see more of SMS/Genesis homebrew, saw one recently which was crazy as hell, I think they put it on the cart as well, must find as I have forgotten the title but it was like 2 people fighting zombies with coffee pots, I mean..just my kinda game right there. :) :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: sverx on April 16, 2018, 08:32:36 AM
Coffee Crisis I bet :)

Also, speaking of SMS, check this: Galactic Revenge (http://www.smspower.org/Homebrew/GalacticRevenge-SMS) :)
Title: Re: More homebrew on Nintendo DS ?
Post by: Lobo on April 17, 2018, 12:02:19 AM
Coffee Crisis I bet :)

Also, speaking of SMS, check this: Galactic Revenge (http://www.smspower.org/Homebrew/GalacticRevenge-SMS) :)


Ahaha, that's the one! :)

Will check that Galactic Revenge now, there's a couple more in there looking rather interesting, gonna try that Mecha-8 thingie next. :P
Oooh, that Cimmerian too, let's see if there's a goblin in there but looks awesome from here!