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Programming => The Detective Game => Topic started by: headkaze on August 18, 2009, 12:11:44 AM

Title: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 18, 2009, 12:11:44 AM
This is a remake of the 1986 game called The Detective Game written by Sam Monthorpe on the C64 for the Nintendo DS.

For those that don't know what this game is you can read a review here (http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/reviews/view.php%3Fid%3D133) or here (http://www.retrogarden.co.uk/commodore-64/the-detective-game/)

(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg01.png)
(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg02.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg03.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg04.png)
(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg05.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg06.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg07.png)
(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg08.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg09.png)(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdg10.png)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 18, 2009, 12:25:10 PM
I thought a little post of the original game in video format may be of use.





Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 20, 2009, 04:20:27 PM
I would just like to say thanks to HK for attempting to teach me C..

He will have to have the patience of a saint... LOL

Been spending a lot of time reading through the existing TDG source and trying to follow all that is going on even at such an early stage. My big problem (being from an ASM background) is classes and structs (much the same except 'public' is implied in a struct - see, I am learning) as these are 'very' alien to anything you would really want to attempt in asm. But.. by god! I will crack this tastless nut.....  ;D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 22, 2009, 09:49:23 AM
No problem Flash and we will get there. I do intend on commenting everything soon so that should at least make things easier to follow.

Okay now I have converted TDG's main tune from sid to wav for Space Fractal to check out when he gets some spare time. I just love this tune so I hope it can be used as an influence in a more modern take on it :) XM format would probably be the best one to choose but since TDG will be using MaxMod (http://www.maxmod.org/) it supports MOD, S3M, XM, and IT.

Game is coming along nicely I have a level scrolling and Inspector Snide movement working along with sprite priority. All the levels are in place too so all I have to do is connect them using a collision map. I wrote a program called ColMapEdit which will be used for that (and it should be useful for MMLL too).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 22, 2009, 04:13:13 PM
I look on this soon, howover I do have sid player allready and also use sid2wav to get the note. by now I concrete on the miner, but of course I look into this sson.

I prefer XM and using SkaleTracker (due it close oldschool FastTracer II style).

How much memory do I have (filesize)?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 22, 2009, 04:34:57 PM
The XM will probably take up the most amount of RAM so I would say about 1 to 3 MB? Would you need more than that?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 22, 2009, 05:26:00 PM
If I used one shared XM with shared instruments, it should not been problem at all. I not even think it use near 1MB, it depend instruments used and prefer it to XI instrument. All you need to start it on diffecent pattern and I do loop it corrrecly.

I Prefer XM files, created in Skale Tracker and want to use XM in both miner as well TDC. I do just found a XM Player (http://wcms.teleion.it/users/cgq/nds/libxm7/) which hope can been used  which seen not use the lib (except the source code example). I did pm Flash the link.

.... no more edits in this posts.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 23, 2009, 05:01:32 AM
Warning! Bloody huge!
(also, a lil mistake-instead of b/w trench coat/fedora it's brownish-too many detective novels ahoy)  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 23, 2009, 06:34:55 AM
I for one am absolutley speechless mate!!!!!  ???
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: BaDToaD on August 23, 2009, 06:56:00 AM
Very Impressive Lobo.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 23, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
There is a start of the mp3 version of the maintune which I just started on (so you can hear the style) in mp3 version exported from FL-Studio (yes it of course "ported" to XM of course):
http://www.spacefractal.com/Temp/The_Detactive_Game_-_Just_Started.mp3

PS. Chords seen been wrong in above tune, which have been corrected and just reuploaded after this edit.

Nice Picture Lobo :-D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 23, 2009, 11:19:00 AM
Wow! Really impressed Lobo! I am an old fan of the oldschool detective novels too. Anyone remember The Singing Detective? Great show.

Also loving the tune so far SF it's sounding great! I can hear some of the original tune in there too so thats really cool.

Thanks for the great work guys :)

Have been working on TDG today and got some basic room to room movement working. Just have to finish off the colmap's and will soon be able to traverse the whole castle.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 23, 2009, 07:07:52 PM
I was to birthday today so I have not worked on tune whole day. But here is the second early version of it, howover instruments is not final (im still not 100% happy with the leader) and might sound diffecent when I port it to XM which is that I do now (even I still missing the last link to the end of the song):

http://www.spacefractal.com/Temp/The_Detactive_Game_-_Just_Started_v2.mp3 <- This is not final at all, but the song is a bit longer than the original due the slow tempo.


Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 23, 2009, 07:23:14 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY mate!!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 23, 2009, 11:03:37 PM
I think he meant he was on somebodies birthday (maybe) :D.
Just came to me about the interface though, in game I mean. The touch screen can definitely help here with action icons. Remember how in original you wanna talk to someone, by the time you navigate and press the talk icon and then press the character and select question...the character is either killed already or 5 screens away  :D.

Now, just having them (icons) lined down and tap press the icon, press the name-boom 2 seconds top.
Plus above the icons you have enough space for their scrolling text (answers) and such-perfect (oh and top screen left in full for the action).

I can make a mock-up basically as in how it could work and post it later.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 24, 2009, 12:30:51 AM
hehe Flash read what I wrote. I was just to somebody birthday and have not time to write the song to DTC :-D. I allready have my own some time ago.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 24, 2009, 08:54:02 AM
Quote
I was to birthday today

Well, it could mean lots of things... LOL 'it was my birthday", or "I was at a birthday today"

Well, the main thing is it was somebody's birthday...  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on August 24, 2009, 01:47:26 PM
Well, the main thing is it was somebody's birthday...  :D

Yeah, congratulations to whoever it was.
(http://www.getsmileyface.com/new/happy_birthday/3.gif)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 24, 2009, 02:48:01 PM
its someone in my family, hehe  ;D

The XM version of title tune is excepted to been max 500kb for mix of 16bit and 8 bit 22khz instruments.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 24, 2009, 06:26:13 PM
Happy Birthday everyone! Just in case!  ;)

Obvious sketch of very obvious placement unless someone got better ideas ~

orange strip - conversation about 16px height should be enough?
description of room/object below two/three lines?
Once you pick the icon, the green field (16px h) writes the actual object being examined (bed/pillow/closet,etc.). And no, it's not supposed to be green, just b/w as in original.
Also, somewhere below can be an icon to quit and just maybe save your progress?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 24, 2009, 07:15:46 PM
Looks like a great layout Lobo...

I was thinking today (while playing HK's latest commit) what to do with the blank area on the top screen? I wondered if a wrist watch spread horizonatal in the blank part would not only look good but also give you a easy visual. The watch could be an analogue one (perhaps even with a second hand)

What do you think HK?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 10:06:31 AM
Sorry about not replying sooner, the website was down yesterday and didn't get a chance to reply until now. First of all I am really liking the title tune at the moment but it may need a bit of work to remove the clicking sound when it's playing on the DS. But it had a great feel and adds a nice creepy atmosphere. Also I will need to record the organ sound when you walk into a room when there has been a murder. It would be great if this could be recreated as a small xm.

I hope Lobo doesn't mind but I've sent him all the graphics of TDG via e-mail. Hopefully I explained things okay. I really like your interface design there Lobo. I was thinking of keeping it closer to the original but I think for touch screen support your design is more practical.

I really like the idea of the analog watch at the top of the screen Flash. The game starts at 9:10 and you are shot at 12:00 if you don't solve the murder. So I think a wristwatch would look great. I did mention to Lobo that he could extend the levels up more if he wanted to but I do like the watch idea.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 25, 2009, 10:27:01 AM
can I do more tunes in the same mod and play on diffecent position, so the game only have one XM but with more tunes included (this save memory too)? The organ is allready own sample, so I could reuse that and then save memory. I wait for a demo, so I can hear which sample that cause the click, which I guess is one of the instrument loop (I have 5 samples that is looped), which might loop incorrectly and then clicks.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 11:04:27 AM
It sounds like the bass is clicking. Sent you over a demo. Actually it would be better to have the "murder organ" in a separate mod as it's easier to handle it that way. I still have heaps of memory free so there's no problem there.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 25, 2009, 11:08:25 AM
then I do that. Its sample 2 (Beneath) that do the clicking sound, not the bass sound.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 02:47:28 PM
.. I've sent him all the graphics of TDG via e-mail.

Just checked, nothing in my mailbox from you (unless you're nicole21xxxboobjob?).
 :D

Hmm..the top screen part, about the watch, there is a huge chunk of space left there darnit. You know, at one point in the original game I was really hoping for some kinda interactive map but dunno if you guys are for that idea. I guess the watch can do. Have to check to see just how cause it's a huge space dammit, can fit a russian submarine in there, need coffee first.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 04:44:50 PM
My internet connection went down in the middle of sending it so perhaps it didn't make it? I've just sent it again. It's 2MB in size so let me know if your inbox can't handle it.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 04:58:06 PM
Just received it! No limits though that I know of so it's fine.
Also, no worries about the game itself, played it many sweet times and died as many, think I solved it eventually (butler?) :D
I'll look through the pack and work bits by bits, if something goes awfully wrong I'll let you know.

EDIT: Oh, here we go, a question! Just to clarify..all the gfx will use the same palette. Ok, so I can build my own palette and then share this one with all the characters and all the tiles (rooms) as well? Or can the rooms have a separate palette (not a big deal if they can't)? With that in mind, interface and menu screen palette, again the same as else or separate?
That oughta be all (for now).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 05:27:46 PM
The rooms can have a separate palette to the sprites and the menu screen can also have a separate palette.

Actually each room can have it's own palette too but if you end up putting a watch on the top screen it will need to have colors reserved in each room's palette for it.

I don't actually know who the murder is yet! lol Me and my cousin who played it alot never actually solved it! I will find out soon though. I'm actually thinking of adding an extra mystery to solve so there is a new game to play for those that have played through the original ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 05:46:24 PM
Excellent! I'll just use one palette for the menu/interface, one for characters and third for all the rooms probably (should be enough to have one to fit them all).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 06:23:54 PM
Ah, also..not so sure about the watch up there. How big should it be and...actually how the heck was it supposed to look like anyway?  :P
Depending on the size of that, I can maybe extrude the walls up a bit and then accommodate the watch thingie.

One more thing, since the tiles are now 8x8, what's the limit per room? I don't think I can break it in a long shot but still...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 07:47:13 PM
I just imagined it as a wrist watch with an analog display showing the time. The hands would just be two lines displayed for long and short hand. It might be nice to make the rooms slightly larger too but I guess go with what looks best to you.

Oh BTW Space Fractal I found an old conversion of TDG I did to MIDI using a program called sid2mid. It might help you with ideas or to get the tune closer to the original?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 08:16:15 PM
Ok, so I was thinking, per each room, to add at least twice the (16px h) in tiles upward so another 32px area is covered and then draw that watch in the corner. Below the white line shows the original size of the walls.
The only thing is, what do you do with the rest of that space up there?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 25, 2009, 08:24:15 PM
Yeah I think that works well like that Lobo. For the rest of the area I was actually thinking of the wrist watch having the two bands from the watch on each side of the watch face in the centre?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 25, 2009, 08:32:45 PM
Aaahh..very cunning, good idea~  8)
Also, since you're here (i did write you an email though), what are these two icons darnit?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 25, 2009, 09:23:25 PM
the next version tune is more closer to the original. I did sid2midi allready, but there is some wrong notes here and there, I got them all fixed in next release.

Also great idea for the watch.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 26, 2009, 05:17:44 AM
Here's the organ sound which plays when you enter the room and someone has been murdered. It would probably be better to get a midi version of this so it's easier to find the notes. Anyway just posting here incase it might help.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on August 26, 2009, 07:18:08 AM
Actually each room can have it's own palette too but if you end up putting a watch on the top screen it will need to have colors reserved in each room's palette for it.

You can also use a separate palette dedicated to the watch, there are 16 palettes for each background if you use tiled backgrounds with extended palettes :)

Bye!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 26, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
Anyway even I convert by my self, thanks for the help :-D. I send a new version to you seen via PM.

I soon do the death murder soon. Its shots.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 26, 2009, 10:58:04 AM
I haven't tried using extended palettes yet but am aware of them. I guess there is always that option but I can't see a need for more than 256 colors at the moment. I guess the only reason why I'm not using them is unfamiliarity and the concern there may be some sort of trade off as is often the case with the DS.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on August 26, 2009, 12:32:57 PM
[...] there may be some sort of trade off as is often the case with the DS

Well, there are trade offs, of course. One is that you need to allocate 32KB VRAM (1 -or even 2- VRAM banks) for that (or 16 KB only if 2 x 16 palette sets are enough), another is that you won't longer be able to use the regular palette so you'll need to specify the palette number for every tile in the 4 MSB of every 16bits map entry.
Of course you don't need all that if 256 total colors (+other 256 for the sprites) are enough :)

Bye!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 27, 2009, 03:46:13 PM
Okay so latest update you can now walk around the whole mansion :)

Lobo sent me some screenshots of a room he's working on which looks great. He's suggested making the characters taller. I'm not sure about this as I kinda like the short characters of the original. The second screenshot is it running in the actual game. What do other people think?

Also I was thinking of having the big text scroller on the top screen. I just think it might be too distracting having it on the bottom screen?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 27, 2009, 03:52:15 PM
The text scroller on the top screen may help with that blank area!

I love the look of the graphics in the screen shot.. really look sweet!!! Though I cannot make my mind up about taller characters? hmm... It may work though? That is a toughy, though it would then enable more character to the characters.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 27, 2009, 04:03:38 PM
Yeah it's a tough one. Here is a screenshot with the scroller added to the top screen. The wristwatch could still fill the top part with the timepiece hanging over the room graphics a bit?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 27, 2009, 04:08:02 PM
I think i prefer the taller sprites mate.. At least there is not mod needed to detection (just detecting feet?)

And he does look damn cool!!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 27, 2009, 05:12:23 PM
I normally newer use scrollers, includning homepages, because I think might been distracting. Howover it depend speed and content used onscreen.

I like the new look on Snide, but left wall look a bit wrong due the perpertive, which dosent match 100%?

I also think it could been a tile higher than the original too? So you have 2 tiles height for the watch and one line with no graphics (so they dosent align to much). Just a idea, but even without the tile idea, it still works as it are now.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 27, 2009, 06:24:04 PM
Ohh..wait guys! :D Darn, should've come earlier but got busy. Ok, don't touch the upper area, after extruding the top walls to 32px there is exactly 40 px left up there and that's where the wrist watch fits in like a glove!
Take a look at the screen to see what I mean (wrist watch is 256x40 btw).
As for the scroller, there's abundance of place on the bottom screen together with interface where you have to look anyway in order to tap the icons and interrogate the characters so it's kinda logical?

Also, for the Snide, it's up to you guys, I can do either so here's the screen and you see which look you prefer more.

I have a bunch of rooms finished, including that one so I'll send a pack later to HK (watch yer email).

One more thing, the perspective is correct in that screen, what isn't 100% correct is the floor, got some distortion there to touch up.  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 27, 2009, 07:14:34 PM
Looking really good Lobo... :)

I like the squat guy, but the other looks better to me and will perhaps be more impressive in hardware?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 27, 2009, 10:20:52 PM
Well, it would look like this so maybe it helps you to decide  :P.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 27, 2009, 10:26:51 PM
Well... I'm smitten! :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 27, 2009, 10:46:03 PM
Must be those squeaking shoes  :D.

EDIT: Wait..anything familiar?  :D

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 27, 2009, 10:56:15 PM
LOL!!! Sweet!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 28, 2009, 01:28:55 AM
Another example of 'tall' characters~Bentley!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 28, 2009, 05:20:32 AM
Woah! Awesome stuff!  8)

I liked your LeVay painting too! I think we will have to keep that a theme in all games made by us now lol

I'm still not 100% on the taller characters but I'm trying not to be stubborn for the sake of my nostaliga and all that. I do want to go with what works best for the game in the long run.

Also don't forget that we can overlay the watch so there is still room for the scroller if we decide to go that way. I just think that since characters say random things that it might be distracting having to look on the bottom screen while moving around. I'm not sure yet and only after some play testing will we find out for sure.

Great work Lobo and I look forward to seeing what you've come up with :)

EDIT: I just noticed you've update the main sprite too and it looks even better.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 28, 2009, 05:30:12 AM
Personly I think it to "compressed" with all the elements with the watch, graphics and the scroller in that way. I simply think it not work very well on a DS, even it works very well on C64 (due hardware limits).

I think these could been alternative:

1. Using talk bubbles instead of scroller (even it was not used in C64, but DS have better hardware to do that).

2. Replace the watch with the scroller when required (they dosent say all times), eventuelly with talk bubble as well?

3. Use one tile height font instead on a transperency background or simply remove the blue background and scroll directly on the bottom on the graphics.


A Another idea is also graphics icons for all things you can carry and not just text?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 28, 2009, 08:06:38 AM
Hah, yeah, from now on every game has to have LaVey..and Marylin Manson-the newcomer  :D.

Ok, for the watch, looks fine except that I would keep the black bkg like on the picture, for clarity. Also, the text scroller should be black instead of blue for final.

As for the characters, I think long legs are much better. I did several tests and yeah, better. No worries though, they're still goofy as you can see on the pic, just...grown.  :)

I'll send you the rooms today (ohmy, 3:50AM!) as soon as I wake up and sort it out.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 28, 2009, 08:38:53 AM
that one does actually works and much better, and I agree with Lobo here. Even the blue background now also work too, if want that to been keeps. Nice compromise.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 28, 2009, 08:44:20 AM
Characters look great mate!  8)

Okay long legs it is then :) They look bloody cool like that anyway.

Did a bit of work today and have basic overlays working. Found some cool sound effects for the game too. I'm trying to think of ways to add more atmosphere to the game.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 28, 2009, 08:46:46 PM
Excellent, you've been converted :D.


The bottom text can be blue as well instead of black, just maybe darkish
blue, like one I've put in the bottom screen menu (you'll see when you get it), it's (R 24 G 80 B 119). Anyway, that's not too important as it does look good like that as well.

Ok, I'll send a bunch of stuff in an hour or so (gotta get some shopping now), lotsa rooms finished and these characters (five characters  and four rooms left).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 29, 2009, 07:11:26 AM
Wow! Just wow! You guys should see some of Lobo's new graphics in the game. It adds so much cool factor it's not funny  8)

Anyway here is a screenshot. I did have the watch showing the time yesterday but Flash suggested using rotating sprites instead and I smacked my hand on my forehead because it's such a better way (will look better, and take less CPU).

Anyway I'm really blown away by how cool it's looking right now! I will be sending Lobo and SF another demo soon so you can wander around the mansion a bit.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 29, 2009, 08:06:48 AM
That is looking so so good HK..

I had a thought about rain..

There is the issue of sprite priority. So, to use the rain will need all the sprites pushed to the arse end of the bank to enable the rain to be infront of the characters. Perhaps not a real problem for C to swap them around when needed though, just a bit more messing about than using a BG scroll.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 29, 2009, 09:09:15 AM
There is a global priority setting that can be used for both sprites and backgrounds (value between 0 and 3) so you can place backgrounds or sprites in front of each other. I believe this overrides oam entry position too. I use it to place the room overlays infront of the characters.

I've just finished adding the watch using rotating sprites (oh soooo much easier!) they look a whole lot better. Anyway I had to change to using sprites because drawing over tiles causes problems when using more than 16 colors. Couldn't be bothered trying to figure out why. Perhaps when using 256 colors each tile can only use 16 colors of 16 palettes. I think that's why anyway.

Going to send off the latest demo to Lobo and SF now. Also did a commit so you can check it out Flash.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 29, 2009, 09:19:18 AM
I will check the commit soon mate - Lovin' it!

What I meant about the sprites is, sprite 0 is above 1, 1 is above 2, 2 is above 3, etc. So, if you used sprites for the rain, the entry for the sprites would have to be less than the value of the sprites that need to be behind the rain. Though, you do have that priority sort that you use to manipulate the sprites on the Y axis, perhaps this could be modded to push character sprites to higher values to allow rain to use the lower values and apear above other sprites? Unless of course you decide to use a BG for the effect?

I also had a little thought about the fireplace.. If this sits on a selection of tiles, would it be possible to use a fireFX to make a ever changing fire and dump that into the relevent tiles - that would look sweet!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 29, 2009, 09:40:34 AM
I was actually thinking of putting the rain behind the level (where the black part up the top was) but I don't think it will work now the levels are taller. I don't think I'll bother with rain, instead just have a rain audio loop with random thunder effect and flash the room to white using the blend register. Should still look cool.

I'm thinking about adding some other lighting effects so everything is more darker and creepier. Perhaps by having chandeliers hanging from the top of the room causing the room to light up when you're below them and go slightly darker as you move away from them. That could also be done using the blend registers although you only get 15 levels of fading to black. So what would have to happen is there would be a light map that as you scroll under a light it calculates the position drawing a fading triangle under it. Then during vblank use a dmacopy of the whole thing so it writes during hblank the different blend value. Pretty easy to do actually and should look really nice.

For the fireplace and tourches on the wall etc. will probably just be animated by placing frames under the level (like we did for Warhawk's destroyed bases) then just dma them as needed.

Eventually I'm going to have to figure out how events are triggered in the original game. Also need to write down when things happen, who's in the room, what objects start where, which doors start locked or closed etc. The best way to do this I think will be to keep saving snapshots in WinVice and then writing down the time and various details until the big picture starts to unfold.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 29, 2009, 10:09:38 AM
Sometimes in films, the audio presents more of an impression than the visuals themself.

The lighting effects also sound really good.

I will have to print out the solution and work through it to take notes - I agree that this is going to be the tricky part to try and get all the events working as they should. This is crucial to the game play..
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 29, 2009, 10:22:59 AM
Just tried the demo. The music shound nice, but I guess there should been a longer pause before restart, eventuelly it can been anorying at some points (even music actuelly works great in the game).

Also if you go up of stairway and trying go right, down, up, right to press your self out of the screen, you can go up to the wall. Look in the screenshots and yes it look funny (Seen only happens on that room).

In one of the beed room (think it happens on all roms), if you move top, right. you cant go down again. This is a very minor issue and not effect gameplay.

I like the watch and blend nicely

I do think to create more than one tune and the deatch one?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 29, 2009, 10:44:04 AM
Yeah I've noticed that you can bust out of the colmap's sometimes. I just have to go through and make them a bit more robust.

With the music I think I will have it stop after it finishes (I can already detect when the song finishes). It can be a bit annoying that it repeats so much. Because the original game had no music when you walked in on a murder the sudden "murder organ" sound would scare the shit out of you. I don't think it will have the same effect with the music playing before it. So I think I will cut off the music after it's played through and perhaps bring it back in at certain moments in the game (like whenever you find evidence or something).

It would be nice to have another tune that shares the same instruments so I can just jump position like the death one. It would be nice to have parts of the original in there like the bassline and stuff. Perhaps a tune for when you find evidence?

PS You should change No$GBA colour settings so it looks closer to the real thing (Options->Emualtor Setup->GBA Mode set to VGA (poppy bright)).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on August 29, 2009, 10:54:30 AM
The major colmap problem was only in that room I found.

In all other, you only got stuck, but was very easy to get free by just go other way. Its a minor issue, but does not really harm the gameplay yet.

I think I let the music stop after end wth a F00 command internal and do not loop which it does now? I think you are right, it more scary when no music is played until you find a dead body and can been more scary. I havent played C64 version very much in that in mind, but this game look very cool.

I think some Ambience music would been cool without any melody as long with rain and thunders?

I would share the instrument so much as possible, and if I add new one I might only add few samples. I like to share instruments and you got subtunes in same XM to work.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 29, 2009, 10:42:36 PM
Ok, I've just sent the rest of the gfx to HK so it's officially done. All that's left, of course, is to do any eventual fixes for something that I might have missed and such.

Oh, btw, I've found the picture of the Flash's highschool sweetheart, says 'To Flashy Splashy...Love, Betty'.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on August 30, 2009, 03:25:19 AM
Oopsie! I knew I forgot something-the game icon so here~
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 30, 2009, 08:00:49 AM
Sweet sweet betty,

Oh, I still remember that wonderful Bread & Butter pudding.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 30, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
As always Lobo comes through with flying colours. It looks absolutely awesome with all the new graphics :) (How quick is he too?) I have to take my hat off to you mate, you've done a great job and really done the game justice.

I actually want to try and contact the original author and see if we can get an official blessing and perhaps even an insight into how the events are triggered in the game. Would save a tonne of work. So Sam Manthorpe if you're reading this please contact me!

I have started work on the fx system which is going to be similar to the one I wrote for Warhawk so hopefully will be a little familiar to Flash. It also demonstraes the use of a superclass (ie. CFx) which all other Fx subclasses are based on (Eg. CFxFade). It uses "virtual methods" which are overridded in each effect.

I'm currently working on a lighting routine which looks great but unfortunately conflicts with the fade to black routines between entering and exiting each room. Only one blend register per screen. Bummer. But I have come up with a way of adding fade and keeping the nice lighting effect which I will be implementing later tonight :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on August 30, 2009, 11:29:29 AM
There is a global priority setting that can be used for both sprites and backgrounds (value between 0 and 3) so you can place backgrounds or sprites in front of each other. I believe this overrides oam entry position too. I use it to place the room overlays infront of the characters.

On the GBA it was buggy, but it works perfectly on the DS. Think of OAM priority (2 bits) and entry position (7 bits) as a 9 bits priority order: lower comes to the front and higher goes to the back. BTW if you give some of your sprite priority=1 -to get them behind other sprites- you'll also have them behind backgrounds having priority=0, so you've got to change backgrounds priorities too.

I've just finished adding the watch using rotating sprites (oh soooo much easier!) they look a whole lot better. Anyway I had to change to using sprites because drawing over tiles causes problems when using more than 16 colors. Couldn't be bothered trying to figure out why. Perhaps when using 256 colors each tile can only use 16 colors of 16 palettes. I think that's why anyway.

Didn't get this  ???  ... are you using 16 colors or 256 colors tiled background? Because if you're using 256 colors tiled background then there shouldn't be any problem. (Anyway using a rotating sprite is easier, of course!)

Bye!  :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on August 30, 2009, 11:32:06 AM
Didn't get this  ???  ... are you using 16 colors or 256 colors tiled background? Because if you're using 256 colors tiled background then there shouldn't be any problem. (Anyway using a rotating sprite is easier, of course!)
The main thing is by using rotating sprites, it does have the benefit of more detailed hands, and yes.. it is easier.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 30, 2009, 12:04:04 PM
Didn't get this  ???  ... are you using 16 colors or 256 colors tiled background? Because if you're using 256 colors tiled background then there shouldn't be any problem. (Anyway using a rotating sprite is easier, of course!)

I'm not exactly sure what was causing the problem but here is my pixel plotting routine

Code: [Select]
void DrawPixel(int x, int y, int colorIndex)
{
u16 tileId = *(BG_MAP_RAM_SUB(BG1_MAP_BASE_SUB) + (x / 8) + (y / 8) * 32);
u16* pTile = BG_TILE_RAM_SUB(BG1_TILE_BASE_SUB) + tileId * 32 + ((x % 8) / 2) + (y % 8) * 4;
*pTile = ((x % 2) == 0 ? ((*pTile &~ 0xF) | colorIndex) : ((*pTile &~ 0x0F00) | (colorIndex << 8)));
}

BTW I have a question for you. I am using the blend register to add an effect which fades out the top of the screen to black (dma during vblank triggered during hblank using a table). But I also want to be able to alpha blend a couple of sprites into the background. My understanding is that there is only one blend register per screen and that you can't do a fade to black and alpha blend at the same time. Also it would seem that alpha blending sprites would effect them all at once. I would have thought (and hoped) that sprites could be alpha blended individually.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on August 31, 2009, 07:45:48 AM
The routine looks correct (but I've got to double check if the lower byte in the halfword corresponds to the left or to the right pixel in that pair...) ... did you get your pixels 'screwed'?  ???

edit once more: I did that check, your code looks correct (the lower byte in the halfword is the one on the left in that pair, so it's the part to update when X is even...)

About fading and alpha blending... it's true, you can't do both at the same time. So if you use fading on the upper part of the screen, you could do blending on the rest of it, don't know if it fits your needs. And about the sprites: yes, all those who's got the blending flag active have got the same blending amount, there's no 'per sprite' blending, unfortunatly. You could try flickering that flag, you'll have sprites which will 'half blend', then. But, again, I don't know if it fits.

Bye! :)

edit: sorry: I just realized I didn't read your question well enough (I'm quite a beginner in that foreign language of yours ;) ). You CAN do sprite blending while using fading special effect. At least you should be able to do that, I never tried it because I never used fading effects. What you can't do is alpha blending on backgrounds while fading, and they're even using the very same registers.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on August 31, 2009, 09:18:46 PM
I was already going to fall asleep this evening, then I found enlightment ;)

Code: [Select]
*pTile = ((x % 2) == 0 ? ((*pTile &~ 0xFF) | colorIndex) : ((*pTile &~ 0xFF00) | (colorIndex << 8)));
I guess it's better now... goodnight! :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on August 31, 2009, 11:28:26 PM
Thanks sverx that fixed it! BTW I think I may end up having to use my pixel routine to draw the watch hands now because to use alpha blended sprites you need to have them in 16 bit color mode. When you use 16 bit color mode you can't rotate sprites :( If anyone can come up with a way to keep the rotating sprites and use per sprite alpha blending please let me know. I actually thought I could change color modes after drawing the watch but it didn't work (just got a black screen)

ie. Tried running this during HBLANK
Code: [Select]
if(REG_VCOUNT == 0)
{
REG_DISPCNT_SUB &= ~DISPLAY_SPRITE_ATTR_MASK;
REG_DISPCNT_SUB |= SpriteMapping_1D_32;
}
if(REG_VCOUNT == 40)
{
REG_DISPCNT_SUB &= ~DISPLAY_SPRITE_ATTR_MASK;
REG_DISPCNT_SUB |= SpriteMapping_Bmp_1D_128;
}
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 01, 2009, 06:09:20 AM
Thanks sverx that fixed it! BTW I think I may end up having to use my pixel routine to draw the watch hands now because to use alpha blended sprites you need to have them in 16 bit color mode. When you use 16 bit color mode you can't rotate sprites :(

You can rotate an alpha blending sprite, both at 16 and 256 colors. Try with
Code: [Select]
ATTR0_ROTSCALE | ATTR0_TYPE_BLENDED | ATTR0_COLOR_256for instance. What you can't do is specify the alpha value per sprite, but I guess you don't need that...
(if you're not using libnds defines then check this: http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#lcdobjoamattributes )


Ah, there's also an interrupt that gets fired when the raster reaches the horizontal line you set, check "LCD V-Counter Match" here: http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#gbainterruptcontrol ... I think it's better than firing an interrupt at each hblank...  ;)

edit: now I see what you're trying to do! You're using both bitmap objects (32k color) AND 'ordinary' sprites... well, you can do that even without changing REG_DISPCNT<_SUB> because the bits do not overlap, the mapping of sprites boundary works on bits 4 (1D/2D) and 20 & 21 (memory size/boundary) and the mapping of bitmap objects uses bits 6 (1D/2D) and 22 (memory size/boundary) :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 01, 2009, 10:58:19 AM
Actually I discovered after that that it's possible to use tiled sprites along with bitmap sprites so I can now display the characters as bitmap sprites and still have the rotating hand sprites for the watch.

Originally I had all the sprites in 256 colour tile mode, but then I wanted to add a character that is like a ghost in the game. Okay so I need to alpha blend a single sprite without effecting the rest. Then I see the following comment "palette for 16 color sprite or alpha for bmp sprite". So I think okay so I need to have the sprites in bmp mode for the alpha value to work. So I change all the sprites to be bitmap sprites and set the alpha value, and .. nothing. So as I said the only reason I've changed to use bmp sprites is to alpha blend a single sprite out so he looks like a ghost!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 01, 2009, 11:11:39 AM
So I think okay so I need to have the sprites in bmp mode for the alpha value to work.

Wow, all that work because of a comment!  >:(

I guess you reverted to normal (256 colors) sprite now, uh?

Anyway there's something you should know: semi-transparent sprites will blend their pixel colors only with backgrounds, not with other sprites. So if your ghost passes before another sprite, you won't see that other 'across' the ghost  :-[  ... you'll just see the background instead (that's really boring also to me, actually  >:( )
(no$gba fails in accuracy here, it blends sprites towards each other...)

Bye!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 01, 2009, 11:39:32 AM
No I have it now where I can simply copy over the .grit files and uncomment a few things to get them back into tile mode. So it's no biggie.

So I guess my question now is what does the alpha value mean? Do I need to use bitmap mode for the sprites to alpha blend a single one? How does it work? Does I need to use the blend registers as well (REG_BLDCNT_SUB / REG_BLDALPHA_SUB)?

The bitmap_sprite example in libnds not seem to alpha fade the sprites. It does set an alpha value but nothing alpha blends on hardware or No$ as far as I can see.

Are you ever familiar with the latest libnds?

BTW yes that is me "headspin" over on gbadev.org :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 01, 2009, 01:08:45 PM
As I already wrote there too, I never really used bitmap objects, I just did a small example in a tutorial I wrote but there was no alpha blending at all in there.

I used 'normal' sprite (16 and 256 colors) before and I also wrote some code using the blending ones... but now I just realized they're no longer working  ??? ??? ??? ... so now the problem is either:
- it stopped working (libnds bug? my code changed?)
- it never worked and I had allucinations...  ??? ??? ???

I'm trying to sort it out.  >:(
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 01, 2009, 01:16:38 PM
Thanks again sverx. Sorry about the confusion with having the conversation over two forums, but I posted there to see if I can get any advice from Wintermute or one of the libnds coders (or anyone else who may have an idea).

You know it might be a bug in libnds it's starting to sound like it is.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 01, 2009, 01:50:37 PM
Okay problem solved! Turns out the bug is in the No$GBA emulator. When I ran this on hardware, not only can I have my fade to black in and out but also alpha blending. Just a few tips for others.

1. You have to turn on alpha blending for REG_BLDCNT (BLEND_ALPHA)
2. You must use bitmap sprites for per sprite alpha blending
3. BLEND_SRC_SPRITE is not required and REG_BLDALPHA is ignored when using bitmap sprites. Use the alpha value for each oam entry instead
4. Overlapping two alpha blended sprites only shows the background
5. You won't see the result in No$ so run it on hardware
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 01, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
You have to turn on alpha blending for REG_BLDCNT (BLEND_ALPHA)

I guess this way every sprite gets semi-transparent, not only those with the flag  :-\

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 01, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
I guess this way every sprite gets semi-transparent, not only those with the flag  :-\

Actually it doesn't seem to work that way. From gbatek..

Quote
Semi-Transparent OBJs
OBJs that are defined as 'Semi-Transparent' in OAM memory are always selected as 1st Target (regardless of BLDCNT Bit 4), and are always using Alpha Blending mode (regardless of BLDCNT Bit 6-7).
The BLDCNT register may be used to perform Brightness effects on the OBJ (and/or other BG/BD layers). However, if a semi-transparent OBJ pixel does overlap a 2nd target pixel, then semi-transparency becomes priority, and the brightness effect will not take place (neither on 1st, nor 2nd target).

What I noticed on hardware was that using bitmap sprites the REG_BLDALPHA value is ignored altogether. But you do need to set up REG_BLDCNT with BLEND_ALPHA and the various source / destination flags.

The only problem now as I mentioned on gbadev.org is that the alpha values override my fade in/out of black. But what I can do is use the alpha value during the fade to have them fade in and out of black that way. So I'm quite happy with how things are now :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 02, 2009, 06:06:17 AM
I did some more tests yesterday evening, and I'm quite confident now I've found how it works.

- You have to set the ATTR0_TYPE_BLENDED in the OAM for the sprite(s) you want to alpha blend
- You have to set in the REG_BLDCNT[_SUB] the flags of the DST backgrounds and/or backdrop you want your sprite(s) to blend with (ex: REG_BLDCNT = BLEND_DST_BG1 | BLEND_DST_BG2 | BLEND_DST_BG0 | BLEND_DST_BACKDROP; )
- You have to set REG_BLDALPHA[_SUB] according to 'how' you would like to 'add' the components.
- You don't need to activate a special effect (ex: BLEND_ALPHA). But you can do it, of course. But you also should be able to use another special effect and still have semi-transparent sprites. (There are some limitations, btw...)
- You don't need to activate BLEND_SRC_SPRITE flag in the REG_BLDCNT[_SUB]. If you do this and if you activate also the BLEND_ALPHA mode then you'll have ALL your sprites blending, not only those marked with ATTR0_TYPE_BLENDED

no$gba fails in showing this behaviour, but it works perfectly on hardware. This morning I tried with some other emulators and I found that iDeaS (http://www.ideasemu.org/) (I'm using ver. 1.0.3.0) does render that feature correctly. My tests were done with 256 colors sprites, but I believe the effect is the same with 16 color sprites and also with bitmap objects (but in this case I think the value in REG_BLDALPHA will be -partially- ignored)

Hope it helps anyway :) [I'm going to post the same on gbadev for reference]

Bye!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 02, 2009, 02:52:57 PM
You keep saying your tests are with 256 colour sprites. Is it possible to do per sprite alpha blending with 256 color sprites? As far as I could tell you couldn't. It doesn't really effect the game that much but I would prefer to use 256 colour sprites.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 03, 2009, 06:14:02 AM
If you mean "specify different alpha values for different sprites"... no, that cannot be done with normal (16 & 256 colors) sprite. But these sprites can be rotated whereas bitmap objects can't...

So if you really need to alpha blend more than 1 sprite at the same time and have them blend with different alpha values, well, you need to use bitmap objects too... (maybe you could use both sprites and bitmap objects... ? )

Didn't all that started because you had that ghost you wanted to make semitransparent?  :-\
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 03, 2009, 07:21:29 AM
I guess its for rain and lightning effects? It cant been used another layer with transperancy for such of effect on the top?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 03, 2009, 11:07:12 AM
Yes this is all about a new character we've added to the game who is a ghost who haunts the mansion. Just a new touch to the original game. There are also two extra locations not found in the original. Lobo did a great job on this and they are seamless. I don't want to give much more info about it because for those people who have completed the original game have an extra challenge.

The good thing about setting the global sprites to bitmap mode is you can use both tiled and bitmap sprites.

Anyway I've improved the collision map detection and general way the character moves. Mainly by using floating numbers and rounding (using round, floor or ceil as needed). It feels perfect (to me anyway) now, so I'm happy with the way that works. Now I have just added all the doors as attachments to the levels.

I'll attach a picture showing what I mean. Flash and I used the same technique for Warhawk and again in MMLL. This allows us to dmacopy the section of the map over the visible map to animate it. I've done a slightly different method to describe the location because unlike Warhawk each room can have different animated objects. I have described these objects in the colmap's. So each tile is given an id and during initialization the x,y and width height (aka RECT struct) of tiles with the same id can be calculated and thus animated as needed.

Oh and Flash came up with the idea of animating the clock in the clock room. I thought it was a great idea and gives me a chance to use the pixel drawing code from earlier. So yeah the clock will show the correct game time :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 03, 2009, 11:30:21 AM
Your posts sometimes are too much complicated for me... what do you mean saying

The good thing about setting the global sprites to bitmap mode is you can use both tiled and bitmap sprites.

 ??? What do you mean with "global sprite"? Of course you can use both sprites and bitmap objects at the same time, you just have to pay some attention at the way you allocate them in VRAM...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 03, 2009, 12:49:01 PM
Sorry yes it's the way libnds is designed. I am still getting used to it myself. Last game I worked on we dealt with the registers directly so it is quite new to me aswell.

With libnds you allocate a local copy of oam to manipulate and then update by copying oam to VRAM during vblank (ie. oamUpdate(&oamSub))

Here is the initialization for 256 colour sprites.

Code: [Select]
oamInit(&oamSub, SpriteMapping_1D_32, false);
And this is the initialization of 16 bit bmp sprites

Code: [Select]
oamInit(&oamSub, SpriteMapping_Bmp_1D_128, false);
I don't understand why you need to specify which type your using because you can call either of these

Code: [Select]
m_gfxSub = oamAllocateGfx(&oamSub, SpriteSize_32x32, SpriteColorFormat_256Color);
m_gfxSub = oamAllocateGfx(&oamSub, SpriteSize_32x32, SpriteColorFormat_Bmp);

It must be to do with the amount of VRAM it allocates for sprites. If you call oamInit with SpriteMapping_1D_32 the bitmap sprites are corrupted. So you must use SpriteMapping_Bmp_1D_128 instead and then both 256 color and bitmap sprites work.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 03, 2009, 01:20:39 PM
I've never used oamInit() or  oamAllocateGfx(), I prefer to initialize and allocate sprites by my own.
About memory allocation, there are 4 different choices for sprites (1D mode, I never use 2D mode)
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_32
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_64
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_128
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_256
The 1st assigns a tile number every 32 bytes, so it gives you up to 32 KB VRAM for your sprite tiles, the 2nd assigns a tile number every 64 bytes... and so on. (Remember that every 8x8 pixel tile at 256 colors needs 64 bytes ...)

For the bitmap objects, there are only 2 different choices (always speaking about 1D mode)
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_BMP_SIZE_128
DISPLAY_SPR_1D_BMP_SIZE_256
The 1st assigns a tile number every 128 bytes, so it gives you up to 128 KB VRAM for your bitmap objects. (Ok, you haven't got 'tiles' in this mode... let's say it's an offset from the beginning...)

You can mix any of those as long as you pay enough attention, but I'd use those with the same figures in the name (for example: DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_128 and DISPLAY_SPR_1D_BMP_SIZE_128) unless you're using only small (8x8 pixel) 16 colors sprites, so in that case DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_32 will give you enough for up to 1024 of them, and you can consider as "reserved" the upper 96 KB of the VRAM bank for bitmap objects using DISPLAY_SPR_1D_BMP_SIZE_128 mode.

But that's not what you're doing (because you're using 256 colors sprite...) so you should change to DISPLAY_SPR_1D_SIZE_64 probably, so having room for up to 1024 8x8 pixel 256 color sprite tiles. (The way you're doing it now limits you to 512 sprite tiles...)

Well, not a big problem, anyway :D

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 04, 2009, 05:09:52 PM
I've recently implemented opening and closing doors (sounds simple but when using screens greater than 256 pixels the DS stores maps in screenblocks and they are a total pain). I have the menu system implemented so you can use the touchscreen to select icons to open and close doors. The only problem is I find it a bit unintuitive having to use the pen. So I think I will have to also add an arrow sprite like the original and allow you to select things using the D pad and A button. I will keep the touchscreen support in there aswell.

Also implemented background animations, like the fireplace and torches :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 04, 2009, 05:24:43 PM
Looking great mate!!

Is the icon display going to be bigger in the end? Just a bit too small for my fat arsed fingers.. (I could grow my nails and sharpen them to a point though?)

(I cant be bothered with the pen either)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 04, 2009, 06:03:40 PM
I dont plan on making the icons any bigger, I think they are fine especially if I add an arrow to select them instead. I am going to also add a little keyboard somehow for entering stuff. I didn't think that anyone actually used their fingers though? Wouldn't that make the screen all greasy and horrible?

BTW I can't seem to get sprites displaying on both screens. It's really wierd. I didn't have a problem getting sprites on both screens for Warhawk. Anyway I have made a post about it on gbadev.org here (http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=16846) so if anyone can help that would be great.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 04, 2009, 07:38:31 PM
For the icons and bottom screen in general, I guess keeping the arrow move with D-Pad and stylus as well should do. I would rather 'tap' but some people might prefer the arrow. The only thing that I think is needed is a gap, well 1 px at least (   :) ) between the icons to somehow visually separate them.
Also, I see that it's just a bottom menu hackslashed down there temporary but once you know how to organize the bottom screen then I should draw it proper and align things and such so let me know.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 05, 2009, 02:47:48 PM
I will be sending you and SF a new demo soon so perhaps you can have a brainstorm then about the interface?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 05, 2009, 10:21:22 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure about the icons and the frame plus the left side needs to be open for the objects you interact with. However, since all the text has moved to the top screen, there should be one strip left above the icons, maybe the one to provide additional description for stuff. Say, you click on 'look' icon and it says 'Look at..' in the strip? Then you click on the bag and it goes 'Look at bag...it's empty'...that kinda thing?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 05, 2009, 11:59:53 PM
The only problem I'm having at the moment is that the console output area is  smaller than on the C64 but it's not too bad. Your right the text area will also be used to select items to use etc. just like on the C64 version. I've also added a keyboard for entering text.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 06, 2009, 01:01:23 AM
AaAhh, very Cool, love the keyboard. Just one thing, are the keys big enough? They look a bit smallish especially for people with gorilla fingers <coughflashcough> :D.
Anyhoo, once you know how it goes, lemme know as I would just set the bkg there as well so you don't have to use that one from the game menu.

EDIT: Waitaminutethere! Did you just..didya...didya use some kinda nice shadow drop below the watch???  ???
Ah-mazing!





Seriously!






you have until monday to finish this...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 06, 2009, 04:18:58 PM
Currently you have to use the keyboard with the pen, but I find most onscreen keyboards (including the one in Pictochat) also requires the pen. There is only one part of the game where you have to type something in so you will need to take it out then. I guess I could make it bigger but with size contraints and the fact it's only used once I think it will do the job okay. Sorry Flash you big awkward gorilla fingers guy you! Oh yeah and there will be an onscreen pointer you can bring up with the "A" key so you don't have to use the pen if you don't want. I just gotta figure out why I can't get sprites displaying on both screens right now.. hmmm...

Oh and yes the cool little drop shadow effect is done by a special HDMA technique that I used in Warhawk for colour cycling text and spotlight effect. It just means you can set values in a register during HBLANK by giving it a simple lookup table. Very simple to do but a great effect and to be honest, after adding the effect I think it's an essential part of the look now!

BTW I can read super duper small fonts and I'm sorry but I need at least until thursay for this one I'm afraid!  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 06, 2009, 04:27:42 PM
The font need to been mear clear and is very much wanish out due the light gray background.

Can you teel which events and locations I should create music for? I was in recently creating music for miner as well, but need doing this game as well finished.

I guess one of them is when weapon being found, and there is still a guitar riff in original sid not used in the new main theme, but that riff can been used there instead?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 06, 2009, 08:17:54 PM
Well, blimey but it's a great effect right there, so 'simple' but it adds so much. Also, yeah I think the keys are big enough they just need to be redrawn to 'look bigger' as they now blend and all (gray+white not good as spacefractal said). Some gorillas might be happy then, some fathers/brothers might get a furburger even. Anyhoo, again, send the stuff when you're ready.








ps. Thursday is fine...make it Wednesday.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 06, 2009, 08:28:46 PM
SF: There are a few events that could do with some mini tunes. I think one for when you find evidence, also I wanted a soundtrack in the main game. After the intro song finishes playing I want an amient track for when you are just walking around the place. I guess something like the music from Halloween?



Or perhaps it would be better with just a sfx track? Creaking doors and things like that? I don't know. Some other stuff needed is rain and thunder for the outdoor areas. There are some really nice samples for weather fx here (http://www.partnersinrhyme.com/soundfx/Weather.shtml)

I was thinking of just using samples for the rain and thunder but I guess a small mod would be better. I can still have the background flash white randomly for lightning. And when you think about it lightning and thunder is never in perfect sync.

Lobo: I just got an updated pack ready to send to you with all the current graphics including the keyboard. Just be aware that the keys are currently in 8x8 areas because I use a font overlay (it makes it much easier that way really) it also means I don't have to make a map with non 8x8 offsets. If the keys are made to look bigger it will just mean you will think your pressing a key when your not. I don't know; if it's a real problem I may have to re-design the keyboard but there is more important stuff to work on right now.

Next up I have the inventory system (picking up and dropping objects) and then adding in the other characters moving around the mansion.. then the event system. Oh yeah I may end up adding the arrow cursor now that I have sprites working on both screens :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 06, 2009, 08:55:18 PM
I let me inspirated by that track, which is a great one for a ingame like this. It would been a diffecent xm, due I not playing to share any instruments. If no instruments is shared it better own xm, but I guess you can control that quite fine now. 300kb is okey as max? I think I did have about 1.5mb total?

I think it would pretty much a original piece.

I also see I do a little weather mod as well (4 channels, can this been xm as well?).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 06, 2009, 09:17:28 PM
For the sfx mod it needs to be 4-channel but I think XM format is okay. MaxMod can use Jingle's (http://www.maxmod.org/ref/functions/mmJingle.html) that play alongside another mod. You still have about 1.5 MB left for music. Maybe more but I want to make sure there is room for everything else (including sfx, code, and possibly more gfx).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 06, 2009, 09:20:38 PM
Goody, just checked the demo for a sec, already kickass!  Gonna check out the gfx stuff tonight and yeah, 8x8 should be fine.   8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 07, 2009, 07:51:16 AM
I've seen the screenshot... wow, I really didn't think that darkening effect of the higher part of the screen could be so effective :) Really cool, man! :)

Bye!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 07, 2009, 08:30:14 AM
BTW I can't seem to get sprites displaying on both screens. It's really wierd. I didn't have a problem getting sprites on both screens for Warhawk. Anyway I have made a post about it on gbadev.org here (http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=16846) so if anyone can help that would be great.

Uh-oh, I'm late, as usually... Btw, yeah, I never liked how they defined those defines, it's really prone to generate errors.  :-X

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 08, 2009, 02:01:41 PM
Look more more cool in the lastest demo.

- The title screen does not stay (nice one Lobo). Missing some sort of "touch to start or somewhere".
- Would been nice to use buttons direcly example to open and close doors without icons at the bottom screen.
- Doors can sometimes been stuck in open state, and can been very hard to close it again, after you have walked away from it. Need to been more tolerance.....
- Top shadow on watch is nice and cool.
- The 6 Icons if you ask me is also too small and need to been bigger. Why the gray area under them? Can they not been used, so it can been bigger by height (the gray area is NOT need to been used by the arrow) and I think that would been fine for the arrow version?
 + Alternativ it could been a big overlay version after have pressed on a button which can replace these 6 icons (so in that whay they can been bigger and easier). This alternative control method can been done by a option on the title screen and would been more touchscreen friendly, since both method should been keept.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 08, 2009, 05:43:57 PM
Think that 'Touch to Start' or 'Press play to...er' will probably be in the scroller, like in the original.
As for the icons, I wouldn't mind bigger ones either because I think that there is a lot of space actually left in there.
Left side has the written choices so that's Ok. Small description can be written in the strip above and since you see 6 icons the most at any given time (lots of time less-like 3), they might be bigger methinks.
Of course, maybe it's not gonna work so let's see what the others think.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 08, 2009, 09:18:34 PM
I just put Lobo's titlescreen piccy to show for a bit. I haven't even started on the proper titlescreen yet, but it will be like the original where each character appears from a questionmark and a description is shown.

I haven't done much lately as I had a bit of a break but just finished a simple little path finding rountine so now I can implement characters moving from place to place.

I'm still not sure about what to do with the interface yet. I think I'll wait until I have the item selection done as I may need to rethink things then. I think the main problem is the space for the text to the left of the menu not being wide enough.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 08, 2009, 09:28:40 PM
I think the main problem is the space for the text to the left of the menu not being wide enough.

Yep, that's the one I'm thinking of too. Do the check and if it fits then maybe icons can be a bit bigger. Other than that, I would rather prefer them at this size with 3 in a row then 2 in a row just to make it bigger, methinks its not hard to select them, except of course gorilla fingers :D.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 08, 2009, 09:40:09 PM
gorilla fingers?

Who may that be...

I find "touch screen to start" tricky..

 :(
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 08, 2009, 09:41:57 PM
 :D
Well I find THAT easy! Press it with your thumbs (or banana) once it says 'health warning-ds is not healthy, etc.'
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 08, 2009, 09:45:35 PM
I tend to throw the DS and hope it catches a corner...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 08, 2009, 09:48:24 PM
I opened it up once and spider came out..heh.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 10, 2009, 11:06:36 AM
Suppose I better log some of the work done recently which although not much to show things are still progressing. I had to modify a bit of my Character class to make way for allowing the other characters to move around the mansion independently. I wrote the path finding code (using a Depth-First Search Algorithm) the other day and put this together with some movement code. I now have Bently moving from the stairs to Snide's room (and any character from any room). Right now it's direct door to door movement so it will need to be modified so that movement is more central to the room and then move off when near the door.

Tweaking this to work the way I want shouldn't take long and then will be onto the inventory system and item management ...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 10, 2009, 01:00:56 PM
That is just coming together so sweet mate... Really looking very special..

Glad you got the pathfinding working... That would have been one of my worries in this game, though I am a bit of a scaredy cat.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 10, 2009, 07:47:29 PM
Looks great as always, follow the Bentley and stay cool.  8)
Hmm..actually, I was thinking of about 3 more secrets (3 more rooms/maybe items) for this one. We've covered the original secret stuff but maybe the extras which might connect like a puzzle and either give a clue or be somewhat unrelated or even explain the history of the manor or something? Would be an interesting addition for a budding detective, maybe.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 10, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
Shhh... I don't wanna know!!!

(though perhaps a little more time would be in order?)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 10, 2009, 08:38:26 PM
You're right on spot, this puzzle as I was thinking might give you additional time in game to solve the actual crime in case you finish it properly. However, in case you fail...instant death?
HHhehehehehhe....
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 10, 2009, 09:52:29 PM
I had the idea of extending the stairs (where your start) to the right and adding an extended hallway to the front door of the mansion. Then another room outside the front door that leads to the front of the mansion. Another interesting part of the game that seems to be missing from the original is Angus McFungus' room! I think we could have a bit of fun adding in some extra tasks or even a whole new mystery to solve. There is also the possibility of making the rooms a bit more custom to each character. Anyway the game is still a fair way off but there are quite a number of additional stuff that could be added to spice things up a bit.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 10, 2009, 10:14:43 PM
Angus room is missing (is he that dude from AC/DC ? :) ). Yea, we might put that room someplace hidden and then do some puzzle about it, hmmmm (<this is like, I'm thinking...).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 10, 2009, 10:29:31 PM
I had the idea of extending the stairs (where your start) to the right and adding an extended hallway to the front door of the mansion. Then another room outside the front door that leads to the front of the mansion. Another interesting part of the game that seems to be missing from the original is Angus McFungus' room! I think we could have a bit of fun adding in some extra tasks or even a whole new mystery to solve. There is also the possibility of making the rooms a bit more custom to each character. Anyway the game is still a fair way off but there are quite a number of additional stuff that could be added to spice things up a bit.

My god... even I am all of a quiver now!!

Sound like some fantastic ideas!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 10, 2009, 10:42:05 PM
Notice all the "good ideas" involve more work for Lobo?  :D (sorry mate!)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 10, 2009, 10:59:26 PM
Good ol' Lobo...

What has he let himself in for...?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 10, 2009, 11:54:34 PM
Good ol' Lobo...

What has he let himself in for...?

FOR A BIG FAT BILL I'M GONNA SEND AT THE END TO YOU TWO, MUHAHAHAHAHasas<cough>Ahaaaa!


It already has like 9 zeroes....but oddly, only zeroes.  :D

EDIT: Forgot to say, you'll need to sign those checks...preferably in blood then send it back to me to verify, OK?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 11, 2009, 12:55:32 AM
Ok, maybe somehow like this so we don't screw up the current layout?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 11, 2009, 01:17:33 AM
I was thinking more along these lines. And maybe have a mini hallway next to the stairs which has the front door at the end, and walking out shows the front of the mansion? Something like that anyway!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 11, 2009, 01:34:49 AM
Looks good, except that I'm not really sure about extending the 'stairs' room (the starting room). Simply  because I don't know how to fit the door in there or entrance to another hallway without kinda screwing the layout.
For that reason I've included another small hallway to take you outside the mansion and the ability to go the right from that walkway upstairs.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 11, 2009, 01:55:07 AM
Hmm yeah I don't know, perhaps something like the attached pic? A mini hall that goes to the front door?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 11, 2009, 04:14:49 AM
The thing is, I would like to keep the 'starting room' as it is in the original (as it is now too). However, maybe if you go to the right, that room can scroll to reveal other rooms (meaning instead of currently being 336x192 it can be 500+ or so width). It can basically look like that pic you've just posted for the scrolling area with just a few doors attached (Angus room/others). In that case, to go outside (in front of the mansion), you would still pass through that door in the 'starting room' because that's where the game starts so it would be kinda logical to be the actual entrance. That way we don't change layout too much from the original.
Ugh, this sounds way too complicated for such a simple thing.  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 11, 2009, 04:56:12 AM
Yeah thats a good idea just extend the start room a bit to have the front door. I do think Angus' room should be upstairs though it doesn't seem right that the master bedroom would be right next to the entrance of the mansion. Anyway I'll leave it up to you as you did the last two rooms perfectly.

BTW Just got the character movement working perfectly yay!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 11, 2009, 12:31:58 PM
Excellent. Also, yeah, Angus room will be upstairs. I'll lay down description and post it here later as I'm more clear as to how it can be. One thing that came to me is that we might need a couple of screens (256x192) which will be like a 'cut scene' if you will, once you solve this puzzle. With these (plus the text in the blue strip) will be revealed a bit about Angus' past and why the heck did you do the puzzle for. I don't think the reward should be anything but giving more time and penalty should be.....DETH!  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 11, 2009, 02:07:17 PM
Ok, here then. From the main starting position you can get through the door A (unlocked) and over B, which shows that the room is upstairs, to a small opening C which leads directly and only to Angus' room D. However, there is a hidden door in there that leads to another room where the mystery of some sort will be revealed once you complete the puzzle.

That said, E goes straight outside in front of the mansion where some other parts of the puzzle are located.
Ok, I do have a puzzle, came to me last night methinks, so I'll send you the actual description of how it goes via electronic communicator. I think its kinda cool, not too hard but you have to open yer eyes and choose carefully ;P.
As I've said before, it would be a cool thing to have that 'tale' you unlock/solve being told in a series of images with text below, not too many, about 5-6 maybe and that should be all.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 12, 2009, 12:38:36 AM
Lobo I sent you an update map of the mansion showing what I think is the best place to add the extra rooms. Some places I thought made alot of sense like putting Angus' room where Outside 1 was and moving it over a bit. Anyway take a look and see what you think. I didn't post it here because I didn't want to give away some of the other new locations.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 15, 2009, 09:47:33 AM
Haven't done much coding lately apart from getting the menu system ready for inventory and today Lobo sent some sexy new rooms (including a cunning puzzle he conjured in his sleep) so spent a few hours creating colmap's and putting the new rooms in. Before I get a new demo out I want to get the inventory system going and perhaps the rain, thunder and lightning effect for outside. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 15, 2009, 05:26:05 PM
Right on! Can't wait to test some of that, should be quite sweet.  8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 16, 2009, 10:35:58 AM
Okay I'm about to send Lobo and SF the latest demo (Flash has access to the source so can always compile his own binary). I'm pretty happy with the way things are going and especially this latest demo mainly because it shows off Lobo's new graphics and SF's new music. But I am also quite happy with the new rain effect I added today. Along with the thunder/rain xm the rain effect adds a nice touch of atmosphere to the game. I hope to do a few more little things like this as I progress.

Still need to get the darn inventory and item manager going but you can see when you select the "accuse" button how the menu system works very much like the original. Also you can use the "A" button to use the cursor which also means I could add a "L" and "R" button to swap screens for those who would rather the main game screen be on the bottom. With the new pointer it makes it possible to use either screen.

Please give me feedback on the latest demo  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 16, 2009, 10:58:46 AM
See the comment, hovover I was a bit tired, so....

I just wrote to you I did not here the ingame, but it was meant the title tune (oops), but I goess that got reworked when the title screen got stayed which it does not doing that (I like that title screen, sad it dosent stay).

It works quite good with the weather and ingame mod (12 channels used total for both)..... Lightning effect might need more work, but that ok for now.

Nice new rooms as well.

I like the how the content menu works to remove icons not used and is much more rebust now and a bit more clear I think.

But this was a quick test, because im out soon, so more testing tomorrow (which I have much more time). See you and great work. Look more like a game.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 16, 2009, 07:44:37 PM
Great stuff, just tried it and it works just as it should!  8)
It's kinda creepy seeing those characters standing there and looping, would expect any of them to shoot me in the back at any moment.
Also, just realized that those two rooms were used to fill all the rooms in there so need to draw separate rooms for each person otherwise it's quite confusing like this  :P.
Anyhoo, great work, keep it up!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 16, 2009, 09:28:18 PM
I play it more tomorrow, as I saw it more I diddent found any collision bugs and door unlock/lock works much better and actuelly works fine as I saw.

More testing tomorrow.

That is for MMLL too testing too.

Elsewise creepy nice work.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on September 16, 2009, 09:53:51 PM
We like to keep you busy SF  :D  ;D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 17, 2009, 04:50:05 AM
The simple things in life  :) This is Flash's idea to have the clock in the clock room show the real ingame time. I guess I could have used sprites again but for now it's using the pixel to tile plotting routine.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 17, 2009, 06:00:09 PM
Looked on demo again today. No major issues found in this sage, only some idea:

1. I propenty want when arrow is used, the arrow move from icon to icon directly. I known some might prefer this which also works fine, so its can been a little option in the title menu?

2. Any possible to add a new map icon, even this was not a part of the C64 game (due the new rooms)? Of course you should not been able to walk for lookin in the map.

3. Should I turn some thunder sound down? even some is might been high, it also works for me and got the game more creppy. But I can do that if you want?

4. I still like the watch to been sync on the clock room room. Why not?

5. You can still walk trought people, but I just think it not finished yet.

6. How about icons for the thing he finds as grahics as well text?

Send me a tune list in the list thread (or email), but I think it no hurry by now? Thay why I have a little focus on MM, due that game have much more music need. I still can still more tunes to this game.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 17, 2009, 08:28:51 PM
The map thing is something I was thinking about too, kinda pull it down on the bottom screen where you can see the rooms layout (and your position via say, glowing red dot or something) and use stylus to drag the map around. I mean, more I play it - better I get at memorizing the hallways but back on C64 I use to loose so much time by missing the actual hallway and trying to figure out which way is Cynthia's room compared to Major's or something.
While we're at it, I'm almost done with these custom rooms so at least something more memorable that way comes. Will send it in bulk though as soon as they're completed.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 23, 2009, 05:09:53 AM
It is much easier to know where you are with the stylised rooms. I may create a map of some kind although I know the mansion like the back of my hand now.

Okay time for an update... I've added a whole bunch of background effects and started on the inventory system (should get a majority of that finished off today) which allows you to pick up and drop objects from location to location. I spent a tonne of time in the original game examining every item (yawn) so now most items can now be examined although there are a few items I have no idea where they are found or what their discription is so if you find the following please let me know where they are: Broken Glass (*not* Broken Plates), Shredded Paper, Plans, A Piece of Card. I expect some of them would be from using an item with another item.

There is still heaps of ingame stuff to do as well like showing every item to every character (well the obvious ones but I'll know when I have them all from comparing what we have with the text ripped from the game ie. "Ripped_From_Game.txt") and asking about every other character. Once this rather enormous task is done then we can finally move to the event system (which will, in itself, be quite a mission to reverse engineer). Phew!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 23, 2009, 05:41:31 AM
It is much easier to know where you are with the stylised rooms.

Exactly what I was thinking of, just like the map you've sent to me. In map mode you can use stylus or even D-Pad to navigate the map and eventually L/R for Zoom IN/OUT. That way if something happens in say, major's room and you're in the cellar, it's easy to plot your way to that location. Also, just a red dot or something may show your current position.

Now, you mention these items and I've never seen them in game, maybe they were never used (leftovers) or some alternative items (like that 'case of professor' that we spoke of)?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 23, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
I gonna think, do you have possible to get some feedback from a played xm (like when a instrument and contain instrument number)?

I got the idea to put in hidden instrument to trigger a ligtning, to make sure some thunder have been activated before a thunder being played after some secs. For best effect, the weather mod should been started in random position.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 23, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
I gonna think, do you have possible to get some feedback from a played xm

In MaxMod there's EFx effect 'override', see this: http://www.maxmod.org/ref/functions/mmSetEventHandler.html

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 23, 2009, 07:09:37 PM
EFx woud been neat to use, I think I add some random patterns to been started, and I make sure there is lightning effect on EF0. But of course sound and ligthning would not been sync like in the real world.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 23, 2009, 07:19:06 PM
I could just use a sample for the thunder and have it trigger with the lightning but I'm quite happy with the way it is now anyway. I do have the event handler running though. Also the lightning/thunder is actually running all the time with the volume down, so if you enter and exit a room it will never start from the beginning but rather turn up the volume and continue playing.

I've been working quite a bit lately on the inventory system. Still have to implement all the: use item with item, show items to characters, and taking and placing items inside other items. I'm getting there in small increments, and it does take alot of time playing the original. I think going through all the items and showing the characters will be quite a mission. Especially since Dingle is murdered so quickly in the game.

I ended up finding out what those last few items were. The only one left unknown is "Broken Glass" and for the life of me can't figure out how to get it. Tried hitting everything remotely made of glass with the hammer. Oh well I will just have to leave it out.

I've been reading around the web how difficult people find the game including the fact that 4 of the pieces of evidence are not marked with an "E". So I was thinking to make it a bit easier and mark them? Not sure what you guys think about that?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 23, 2009, 07:43:20 PM
I have not added any events for the whether mod, just readed about it. I just diddent like I could hear 4-5 thunder without see a ligtning. If you add the first one when you got out side witheen 5 seconds that would propenty been fine too.

Other with that, it works awesome with both xm played same time :-D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 23, 2009, 10:19:40 PM
Broken glass, well you do break that jar thing but it might not be that. As for the evidence thing, dunno really. The fact that you can put any item in the evidence envelope means that authors probably wanted you to guess if some items are connected with the murder. Also, if you know the password for the safe, you can skip several items which can be used as evidence methinks, so probably just keep the main ones marked with 'E' and the rest for the brainstorming?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 25, 2009, 01:05:20 AM
Okay time for an update. A big chunk of the inventory and item management system is done. You can pick up objects, examine them, put items in other items etc. Some items you can use with other items. Main things to check out in this update are using the keyboard in the library, you can turn green by taking the pills, ask characters questions (although correct answers haven't been put in yet) and just added a few of the new animations (more to come like rats and drips in the utility room). Anyway will be sending a demo out soon.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 03:09:40 AM
Sweeet, can't wait to try that one out, especially ask a few questions around, hehehe.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Man, great progress. It's pretty damn smooth and collisions are almost perfect (you can sorta walk over the kitchen sink a bit). Inventory system works great, I've picked up a bunch of stuff and tried to mix them and drop, all good. I'm pretty certain you know all these details but just to mention some that needs tweaking.

Items that you pick are not destroyed yet, right? Also, you can get the FB without opening cabinet in utility room and such. In the same room, the light above the door is obfuscated by the actual door, as the layer is probably behind. The icon (arrow) goes below the actual frame, pretty sure you know this one too. What's left is to make sure the text also fits the characters as Gabriel and Cook are referred to as 'He'.

All in all, it's really smooth and already fairly complex, gonna be a great one. Need to play more tonight as I've only visited half of the mansion.  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 25, 2009, 09:55:41 PM
Tried this little bit, but do a more in-depth tomorrow. Here is what I think:

1. Should Snide could past trough other people when moving up/down? Should stop at some points?

2. Would been nice to move arrow by touching on the screen as well using joypad. The interface could been invoked by touching on the bottom screen as well bottom (I cant see a problem by use styles even the arrow are shown)?

3. Collision is no problem anymore, that you see in kithen (as Lobo wrote) is very very minor and is none annoying at all.

4. I LOVE that animation clock room (how many do actuelly have a old wall clocks shown in seconds?). Only needing some ticks sound :-D.

5. The onscreen keyboard in the library llok very nice. would been nice to use joypad as well (due the rest actuelly use joypad and buttons). What do that use for? (mightbeen its a part later in the gameplay? So I gonna recheck it again later).


I work more on the weater xm and jingles in weekend or next one. Is seen Flash game is much more complete, and need to do the 3 movie songs finished, but is still not important by now.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 10:10:07 PM
Hmm...not so sure about collisions with others, might slow you down unintentionally and create problems with calculating their position vs yours. As for the arrow, yep that one will be quite swell.

Btw, music is from Halloween..I mean, some remix you did there? It's great, I mean bloody scary but you can definitely tell it's 'almost' a theme from HW OST. Not so sure about one thing though, in HW movie, this tempo is used for really heart pumping moments such as Myers chasing someone with a 17" blade and so on. Is it possible maybe to experiment with slightly slower tempo but in the same vein (dramatic)?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 25, 2009, 10:17:40 PM
Yes HeadKaze shown me a movie earlier in this (Reply #106) and have I let me inspirated by that, but is not a 100% direct remix at all, but more a 90% inspirated of that tune or some there as well.

Paino do play a bit different and is not 100% replicate, strings is not used, but added some notes as the original TDG theme instead.

I can also try to do a slowdown version? The tune might been bigger, but let see what I can get out when I rework the piano patch which is recorded as a loop for each note...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 10:34:07 PM
Yeah, I can hear the other stuff as well but it's definitely HW, I got soundtrack and to anyone ever seeing the movie it's fairly recognizable tune. Nothing bad about it though, just maybe a slower tempo as this one sounds more for the 'OhNo..someone is chasing me..with a pair of toe cutters' kinda action.  :P

EDIT: One more thing about the game. Bentley, when he walks to the right, he might look better by using his 'walk left' animation, just flipped, instead of using the (currently) those last three frames which are more suitable for diagonal walk. I think this might apply well to the rest of the characters?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 25, 2009, 11:07:23 PM
If I slowdown from 135bpm (which its now) down to around 126bpm, the piano does not work anymore (which sound too bright now), so I need to change the patch (I for now trying in FL-Studio) as migtbeen some others (but let see)....

HeadKaze do liked the ingame as well.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 11:13:06 PM
Oh, yeah, I definitely love the tune but am so familiar with it that I can only recognize HW stuff and hear a bits of pieces from Detective tune in there. I only thing that tempo might be slower to give you some dread effect and then maybe use this current tempo once the murder happens or something generally important.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 25, 2009, 11:16:51 PM
its was originally meant the tune first to been played after the death body have been found and Snilde have leave the room and then played one or two times (not whole time I guess).... Also NOT before the murder.

Headkaze have just played the tune as it are for the ingame test as long with the weather mod, I do experiment with a slower version and few changes to the instruments.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 25, 2009, 11:56:02 PM
Something along the line of this tempo, couldn't find more suitable stuff but this might illustrate what I mean by slower, dread tempo that is not too intrusive.  Just the first minute of the tune, the rest goes crazy-

-choonz- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQschDYmYbw&feature=related)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 26, 2009, 12:18:05 AM
I gonna think I have a idea to a another ingame tune which could been played until the murder (which also not a replacemant of the another HW ingame, which might require some piano work)......

godnight, bedtime.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 26, 2009, 09:48:02 AM
Doesn't work on my NDSLite/R4 ... gets stuck after title screen. Draws the room, the clock, doesn't draw arrows and characters, question marks don't move in the lower screen :'( But it seems to work ok on no$gba... ???

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on September 26, 2009, 02:08:20 PM
I didn't test the last demo on hardware sorry (gotta do that more often). Just checked and there were a few initialization problems (have to set everything to NULL for hardware). So just got it running okay on hardware but didn't have a problem with the sprites. Hopefully that won't be a problem in the latest release. I have a DSLite and R4 so you should see what I see. I will re-send it to you soon.

Some great ideas and suggestions there. I have already added Lobo's suggestion of flipping the characters when moving right. Looks alot better that way too.

As for the sprites not being able to walk through other sprites, I'm not sure of that as it could be annoying if a character blocks your way somehow. But just incase it does work better that way I have already got the code in place to deal with character collisions so I might just see if it works well or not. Definately a good suggestion though.

I just removed the seconds hand to the clock. And I agree about the onscreen keyboard allowing keypad control. Will just need to create a box sprite that you can move around the keyboard. Also you will definately be able to envoke the menu system by hitting the menu area with the pen.

I also agree that the ingame music is more suited to play when you find evidence or something. I guess we need a slower background type of music for the ingame (that maybe even has a very long pause between replaying).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on September 26, 2009, 02:46:09 PM
I didn't test the last demo on hardware sorry (gotta do that more often). Just checked and there were a few initialization problems (have to set everything to NULL for hardware). So just got it running okay on hardware but didn't have a problem with the sprites. Hopefully that won't be a problem in the latest release. I have a DSLite and R4 so you should see what I see.

mmm... it depends. What colour is yours?

Joking ;) Waiting next beta, then. :)

Bye!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on September 26, 2009, 02:48:04 PM
Why not just use the arrow for the keyboard as same way for the interface?

Am are doing a slower version which would been song 4 on the same XM which play at much slower speed.... By now no new patches is needed, so it wont extend the xm very much (even I still have comply of memory left). I can trying to do a 8 bit version (converted by Milky Tracker) and see how much diffecent its is. I do keep the HW tune as it are (just piano is played at bit diffecent).

I have sent a very early version to Lobo, but I send to you too, so you have hear what I'm doing and in style.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on September 26, 2009, 08:47:23 PM
I like the latest tune better in terms of tempo plus its not exclusively on the 'Halloween side' as it was before (was waiting for Michael Myers to come out the door any minute) :D. Most of the game you walk around searching for clues and thinking about what to do next, if you have an audio tour de force ringing in your ears all the time it might really mess up with the pace and make ye nervous...and ye don't wanna be nervous while on the mission.  8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 03, 2009, 11:39:47 PM
The new slower tune is better suited ingame. I will need to get SF to modify the songs a bit for example the titlescreen tune does not loop back to the start but instead goes onto the next tune. It needs to loop.

Yes it seems like development has slowed down quite a bit but I can assure you I have been working on this. I have gone through and now have the dialog of all characters asking about each other, Angus and every object. I cheated a little bit by using the text I ripped from the game so I only had to find which object and characters responded based on the ripped dialog. The rest are either random or standard replies.

Again frustratingly I can't find what two objects these are in response to:

1. "IT'S NOT ONE OF MINE"
2. "I..ER..DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT"

And I still don't know where "BROKEN GLASS" comes from. But anyway rather than wasting any more time playing the original for hours I'm going to move onto the next part of the game.

Currently I have implemented the main titlescreen and you can now solve Lobo's puzzle and apart from the two answers above the question system is fully working as well as inventory and item management.

Really the only thing left now is the "objective system" where each character has a bunch of objectives to complete and then finally the event system. Getting there!

Oh and I haven't bothered sending out demo's for a while as I don't see the point really. There is not much to test until I get the last two systems in place.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 03, 2009, 11:52:08 PM
Oooh..sounds great! Well, actually that sounds as if all the major aspects (and most boring ones) are already there!

As for these two answers
1. "IT'S NOT ONE OF MINE"
2. "I..ER..DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT"

I think they say this to anything really, I remember asking randomly about items and getting these answers (No.2 more than No.1). The best bet is to simply use that text which tells you for which objects characters respond in certain way. I mean if you ask the Cook about the Gun/Bullets-I would expect any of those two answers, you know.
As for the Broken Glass, beats me..I do know that it's not important to solve the game so maybe just ignore it?



Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 04, 2009, 12:42:30 AM
I know the "DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT" is a standard reply that Dingle gives about most objects, but it's the "I..ER.." at the start that I'm curious about. It does point towards an object to ask Dingle about but you only get the key to his briefcase after he's murdered, and I believe the study can't be unlocked until after he's murdered either. I won't worry about these for now but it is a little annoying.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 04, 2009, 02:15:45 AM
I know that his room can't be unlocked after the murder, could be study as well.
Dingle usually responds with "Don't know anything.." except he comments on both wills in case you have them before he's murdered.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 04, 2009, 06:06:59 AM
Yes its have slowdown a bit, but I still in this game :-D. I guess Manic Miner should been finished first which its does soon, and let TDG got released soon then I have a lots of time for music on this game (which contian less music than the other game)....

With the music, you might need to enable loop, elsewise it just play to the next song (and jump first pattern over). I look on it why the title song dosent loop.

[EDIT]
Look like F00 does not supported by the MaxMod Player, which normally should stop the tune, but instead it just ignore it. That hence it began to play next tune, I fix it and add loop command instead.

I have just sendt fixed tunes (I hope) per email in 16 and 8 bit versions. 2 tunes did not loop propenty as they should.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 04, 2009, 11:09:56 AM
Look like F00 does not supported by the MaxMod Player, which normally should stop the tune, but instead it just ignore it.

I think (but I've got to check) that there's a flag to say MaxMod if this F00 should be ignored or not. And another one to choose if the song should loop when reached the end of the patterns.

About TDG: I've seen that famous ghost. Have you got a spare background to use instead of a semitransparent sprite? So that the detective could be seen even when he's behind the ghost (actually he can't be seen there, you know...)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 04, 2009, 09:04:32 PM
I actually like the "side effect" of the detective not showing through the ghost ;) (I call it a "feature" not a bug hehe)

BTW The new music did the same thing as the last so perhaps sverx is right and there is a way to turn these things on but I cant find anything in the documentation. Also there is the MM_PLAY_ONCE/MM_PLAY_LOOP options.

We could also just use the Song Events (http://www.maxmod.org/ref/tut/songevents.html). Perhaps when SF gets his new flash card he can install devkitPRO and start playing with MaxMod.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 04, 2009, 09:25:17 PM
MM_PLAY_ONCE is only good to detect when looped, so it tell the game code to fading out using global music volume. 3 of the 4 tunes is NOT designed to been ended, but fadeout. It would should akwald if it just stopped with a end to the tune.

Also The event could been used great for some ligtning effect (not played sametime as thunders).

I have also sent the fixed tunes yet, so they all loop correctly (2 of tunes looped wrong or used the F00 command).

PS. I have installed devkitPRO but have not looked into that very much yet.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 05, 2009, 09:53:31 AM
You could also keep on looping the module and lower the volume when needed from the program using mmSetModuleVolume() (http://www.maxmod.org/ref/functions/mmSetModuleVolume.html) function...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 05, 2009, 09:00:49 PM
The main problem is I'm not receiving any message telling me when a song has finished because all the songs are in a single module. We may have to end up using those Song Events so I know when the song finishes. Also when do I know when to fade out the song?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 05, 2009, 09:15:00 PM
I add song events as well in the song end in next song release.

I use EF0 next time as well loop, EF1 for the lightning effect and EF2 to stop the song (church murder music) to make sure not messy the music.

Tell me you you use the 8 bit or the 16 bit version? If it sound nearly the same with 8 bit, you should hould use that. I do allways edit the 16 bit version and then simple convert to 8 bit.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 05, 2009, 10:06:03 PM
I tried the 8-bit version and didn't notice a big difference so I think I will stick with that for now.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 06, 2009, 05:44:50 AM
The main problem is I'm not receiving any message telling me when a song has finished because all the songs are in a single module.

Oh, I see now. Well, you could use the song events or you could split the songs to separate modules, I've read that MaxMod won't store duplicate samples in the soundbank anyway, so you'll be using almost as much memory as the way you're doing it now...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 06, 2009, 05:48:07 AM
I wont do double work to split them up. most samples is shared in all songs, but song event can fix the problem anyway, when I went home, I fix the modules to use the event when looping and when it want to stop.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 08, 2009, 10:36:28 PM
Great point sverx since MaxMod stores samples in a soundbank and if it doesn't store duplicate samples that means we can split the modules up into separate songs. That would make it much easier in the end IMHO. I wish we had of known this before. How much work would it be to split the songs up now SF? There really is no advantage to having all the songs in a single module now.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 09, 2009, 06:03:28 AM
Great point sverx since MaxMod stores samples in a soundbank and if it doesn't store duplicate samples that means we can split the modules up into separate songs. [...] I wish we had of known this before.

Please double check this, since I've read it somewhere (for instance in this post (http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?p=164147#164147)) but I can't find that in MaxMod mmutil (http://www.maxmod.org/ref/tut/convguide.html) docs.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 09, 2009, 06:23:33 AM
its far to late now, instead we just use song events now....

Not sure it still save all instruments when compiled, also when the songs is not loaded? How would MaxMod detect which instruments to save?

But I do have sent these to you with added song events to main songs as well weater mod, so loops or song end can been checked that way instead and then fadeout or stop manually....
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 11, 2009, 02:06:20 AM
Haven't had a chance to check out the music events yet but the titlescreen is looping over correctly now, so you must have fixed that.

Time for an update.. the game is going quite well albeit in strides rather than leaps and bounds. I still have two characters to follow around and mimick their movements. I'm also going to have to take into account how some characters check doors and don't enter if they're locked etc. But I still haven't implemented locked doors yet but it's coming close to that now. I will be sending out a demo soon, perhaps after the next big coding session or the next, but I want to see if you guys can solve Lobo's puzzle. Again nothing to show I'm afraid but expect a demo soon :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 11, 2009, 02:46:19 AM
Cool beans!
Heh, they'll probably solve it in a minute. In case not then they're lousy detectives and I'm Agatha Christie incarnated..mean, internated, interiorated, interfuriatedfumigatedobfuscated...what's the word?!!  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on October 11, 2009, 08:51:39 AM
it should be 'incinerated'

 :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 11, 2009, 07:29:50 PM
Heh, that's the one.
Lately I've been watching the old Poirot shows and some Holmes in between and man, the original detective game has so many elements from Agatha stories it's amazing. No wonder it's most satisfying game in this genre even though I can't recall playing any decent detective like stuff after 8bit era sorta ended. It would be quite cool to have a game in which the setup is always the same but randomly picks who gets killed and who's the murderer so every time the stories, actions, motives, etc..is randomly shifted around via some crazy script. Imagine the possibilities (and not to mention bloody ass hard work to do this, hahahah).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 12, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
Well, just to add to that...

For example, you've read or seen some version or another of Murder on the Nile?
In that one, oddly, in the first three minutes you already have three bloody murders and the rest 2 hours is Poirot presenting the case as he figured it all at around minute 9.

Ok, good, that can take a while but what happens is, unlike in say, Murder on the Orient Express where everyone chipped in the actual murder, is that only two people are murderers. One executing the plan and the other one being a mastermind and helping along the way.

BUT..BUTT!!
The way Poirot explains the case is that he goes through each and every case of about 10 people or so telling you what was their possible motive, plan and means of execution. That means that everyone can either act independently or in coop with another person (almost random sometimes) in order to commit the murder and have a VALID explanation, motive, means, etc to do so.
Splendid!
Only at the very end is that THE actual team, duo was named and proved that they were the ones responsible. So, even when you see that only those two were responsible for the events, it's still possible that everyone else could've done it, alone or in group. Ah-mazing stuff.
Now imagine a game like that where everyone can either act alone or randomly select the helper or maybe two, three of them and randomize the chain of events such as - who was the witness (kill him/her with random different means), what incriminating objects or evidence in general are left on the scene or raise suspicion (remove it/add to it/throw suspicion on someone else) and maybe even remove the actual helpers to protect the secret?

Several of these things mentioned are already in The Detective actually so I won't spoil it for those who haven't played it but you'll see after finishing the game.

Having any game act like this would be real crazy though, maybe in the future we can make something along the line of this. Also...it can have some cases being based purely on accident (noone killed anyone, the victim just fell on the tree stump in the woods and long forgotten ax fell from the tree to conveniently cut the head off) or those surreal moments like - "Gorilla did it, in despair, the banana temptation was just too MUCH!".
 :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 13, 2009, 02:26:55 AM
I remember one movie that reminded me of The Detective Game and it was a bunch of people in a mansion who are one by one being murdered and the murderer is one of them. So you get a lot of people looking at each other with accusing eyes. I believe it also had the murderer's eyes looking out from behind a painting. I've been trying to locate the movie and what I found was an Agatha Christie movie called "And Then There Were None". I downloaded it last night and am watching it now. Incidently there are two PC games one based on this movie and the Orient Express which I'm going to check out for some inspiration. But I really do like the idea writing an original detective/sleuth game one day. I think it would need to use some sort of scripting language like RPG's do so the plot can be quite complex and allow for different endings etc.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 13, 2009, 03:35:18 AM
Yep, 'And then there were none' also known as 'Ten Little Indians', great book and the movie is not bad. I saw the old one from late 40s or 50s is what I remember because the murderer is the same actor from the great movie 'The Naked City'. Definitely watch the 'ATTWN' as you'll see just how many elements are in The Detective, including the murderer getting the alibi in a peculiar, classic way.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 13, 2009, 06:23:07 AM
Just finished watching ATTWN (while coding TDG hehe) and while it was a cool movie (and I did miss some parts when getting engrossed in coding) it's not the one I was thinking of. It's a similar concept though, a group of people in a mansion, one is the murderer and they are being murdered one by one. The one I remember had a Portrait Painting Peephole (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PortraitPaintingPeephole).

Perhaps it was Murder by Death (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074937/) or Clue (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088930/) although it was so long ago I don't remember it being a comedy/spoof but it could of been. I will soon find out though..

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 13, 2009, 11:23:01 AM
Okay just sent out the latest demo to Lobo and SF. I wonder if anyone can solve Lobo's puzzle? Hmmm.. well still quite a bit of work to go, but it's nice to finally get the next demo out there. There are no murders yet, and there is more to be done for character movement and events, but overall it should give some feeling on the final gameplay. There are a few issues I'm aware of like the sprite sorting flicker issue and the character movement needs some improvement but apart from that I'm interested in hearing feedback.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 13, 2009, 11:55:00 AM
some people just job right in the door in the bed rooms, I think they should go more into the room and then stop and mighbeen turning?

The new music works much better, so I need to agree this slower tune is much better, but the faster tune might have some use later in the game as well and the 8 bit version (if you use that) sound really nice and no problems at all.

Idea:

- In the "you are carring" section, these objects could been shown as graphics icons in the empty icon window, so it have something use here. Might been just in white color or such?

- A tick tick sound in the watch room?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 13, 2009, 07:15:43 PM
It's a similar concept though, a group of people in a mansion, one is the murderer and they are being murdered one by one. The one I remember had a Portrait Painting Peephole (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PortraitPaintingPeephole).

Could be House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price, mansion with people locked in, killed one by one.
I'm gonna try the demo soon, just came home ;).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 13, 2009, 08:26:20 PM
Bloody nice. So far-maybe allow to ask questions without getting too close?
If I stop the character, the conversation options sometimes wont trigger unless I'm literally stepping on their toes, so to allow maybe just a bit larger radius once you stop them. I wouldn't go with the original where you could talk from a far distance but to be close enough so there's some space between you and person you're talking to.
Also, the characters shouldn't leave until their answers are done with scrolling, I know the original have this tendency to make characters run away before you can even read what they said or have time to ask another question.

Hah, in related news - found the pills, looking goood in green :D.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 13, 2009, 08:36:09 PM
yes I eated these pills too, nice effect, hehe
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 14, 2009, 03:13:07 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. Lobo did you complete your puzzle yet? I might need to add a few extra clues in there as it might be a bit difficult to figure out right now.

- People who just stand inside doors; that's how they act in the original game. Sometimes they only enter the room like Bentley in the library who pops his head in on occations - and same as in the study to say "is everything satisfactory sir".
- I like the idea of having an icon for each object but that would mean Lobo would need to create them all (quite a lot really). Perhaps it's not so necessary?
- I have added a tick tock sound to the clock room it adds a nice effect :) Also added a fireplace crackling loop to the drawing room :)
- You actually don't have to be as close to the characters to ask them questions as much as the original game (I thought anyway). But you do need to be facing them to ask questions. You can actually be 16 pixels away from them to ask questions. I could make them take longer to talk so you have time to ask more questions, but you can ask another question while they are answering one already.

As for "House on Haunted Hill" it's not that, it's an old movie, but I have a few to check out now and will let you know. The strange thing was last night after finishing up on coding an Agatha Christie movie with Poirot came on TV :) (unfortunately was too tired to watch the whole thing)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 14, 2009, 04:26:08 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. Lobo did you complete your puzzle yet? I might need to add a few extra clues in there as it might be a bit difficult to figure out right now.

Yep, it works ;). Love the 'effect' when you finish it plus clock animation! However, yes, there might be a problem with getting there or understanding due to the nature of the interface and the way description works now. If you still have the original text that I've sent with the puzzle, you'll see that there was description for the painting on the left (McFungus landing) for that sequence as well as description for the trophy and Gargoyle. Writing all that will make things more clear. Also, hmm..I'll send you the email about the other parts which can be tricky to figure out so we don't spoil it here.

- I like the idea of having an icon for each object but that would mean Lobo would need to create them all (quite a lot really). Perhaps it's not so necessary?

Yeah, I dropped that idea at first since the original game didn't have it. However, yes it would be a good idea so HK just send me the list of all the items and I'll put that in.

- You actually don't have to be as close to the characters to ask them questions as much as the original game (I thought anyway). But you do need to be facing them to ask questions. You can actually be 16 pixels away from them to ask questions. I could make them take longer to talk so you have time to ask more questions, but you can ask another question while they are answering one already.

Ah, Ok, I had them running away often so making them stay longer would be cool.

As for "House on Haunted Hill" it's not that, it's an old movie, but I have a few to check out now and will let you know. The strange thing was last night after finishing up on coding an Agatha Christie movie with Poirot came on TV :) (unfortunately was too tired to watch the whole thing)

Yes, that's the sign that you're on the right path :D.

Ok, just a quick something, a typo with Doctor, he says something like "Has anyone seen my ScaLPLes..".
Also, 'a piece of card' is an obvious filler and not used as if you read it it says "Sam was here", as in the coder guy, I presume.
Footsteps sounds is maybe a bit too loud, I had to stop a few times thinking it was part of the music. :D Maybe making it less intrusive/softer?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 14, 2009, 05:33:51 AM
which type of puzzle its is? I guess is a original puzzle? But dont spoil it here :-D.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 14, 2009, 06:28:25 AM
Okay just sent out the latest demo to Lobo and SF.

I'm still interested in checking the beta, if you don't mind ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 14, 2009, 07:28:02 AM
The puzzle we're talking about is an original that Lobo came up with. It's a bit hard to figure out at the moment but I will be working to make it a bit easier.

sverx: I will send you the latest demo is a minute mate..

Lobo: I agree the footsteps are a bit loud and annoying. They will be better in the final. I will turn them down and also have a longer sample with more variations of step sounds. Oh and about the "piece of card" I kept that in to honor the original coder (Sam Manthorpe) ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 14, 2009, 02:43:46 PM
which type of puzzle its is? I guess is a original puzzle? But dont spoil it here :-D.

It's fairly simple, as soon as you manage to unlock that door in the starting room. The key shouldn't be a problem as it's needed anyway just like in the original game (that's a hint) :D.

Oh and about the "piece of card" I kept that in to honor the original coder (Sam Manthorpe) ;)

Aye, I figured that as the actual object doesn't do much but it doesn't harm anyway.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on October 15, 2009, 01:09:15 PM
sverx just sent me an e-mail saying that "Both the NDS betas (MMLL and TDG) are exactly 2.800.704 byte long". There is probably a bit of padding and alignment going on but still.. pretty amazing IMHO

So anyway, perhaps it's time for us to purchase a lotto ticket?  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on October 15, 2009, 02:25:23 PM
There is probably a bit of padding and alignment going on but still.. pretty amazing IMHO

I just made a small check: the size of my NDS files is always a multiple of half KB plus 64 bytes. Also these two. So there's not so much padding and alignment after all ... ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on October 15, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
haha :-D, mine DTG beta is a bit smaller which is dated 13-10-2009 and is 2.526.272. I got there is newer beta and got some new sounds, but funny anyway. I dunno what it happens when both games is finished?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 15, 2009, 07:54:21 PM
Wow, that is weird. Hah, the reason might also be in both games having the same splash screens at the beginning ;D.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on October 15, 2009, 07:55:56 PM
it is the work of the DEVIL!!!

Or Lobo..

Well.. something?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 15, 2009, 08:37:17 PM
Hey! I was not the one compiling these so the two of you are the most suspicious suspicionados(?) right now.









Means you're demons...both of ya.
Welcome aboard.  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on October 15, 2009, 08:46:29 PM
It's doesn't matter who did it...as long as it's done by monday. :p
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on October 15, 2009, 09:43:49 PM
It's doesn't matter who did it...as long as it's done by monday. :p

You're being too generous, it's Thursday already so...make it until Saturday!*







* Man, I'm getting soft.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 06, 2009, 09:22:14 AM
Beta testing TDG these days... well, I really don't know where to start. I mean... am I supposed to go around and collect objects and talk to people around until I'm ready to say who's the murder in my opinion? I know my question sounds silly, but it's that I'm not getting into the game still :-X

Oh, I guess a description of the icons in the lower screen is needed. I never remember what each of them means... maybe just something that appears when you select one of them? And are you going to support touchscreen or not?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 06, 2009, 09:51:32 AM
There have been a few distractions of late, one being power outages, other software projects, work on the MMLL release and a friend who's in town. And I also had about 3 weeks break from it (it helps with sanity having a break from coding). Anyway I am now back and working on it and still aiming for an XMas release (fingers crossed) :)

sverx: It's still only a demo at the moment and you can't solve the game because some objects you need appear after some of the characters are murdered while you play the game. I am currently working on the murders which are mostly in place now, and I'm also working on the end of game sequences. Will be sending out another demo in a week or so which will allow you to actually solve the game as everything needed to finish it will be in. Then it will mainly be a matter of polishing it up and testing.

Overall though you must collect 10 pieces of evidence and place them in the padded envelope. If you follow Bentley as he instructs you at the start of the game and search your room, examining the padded envelopes tells you this. So while you collect evidence you have a couple hours to solve the murder or the lights go out and you're shot. Other guests are being murdered while you try to collect the evidence and figure out who the murderer is (and no spoilers here please guys!). When you collect all 10 pieces of evidence you can accuse the murderer and if you get it right you win the game (or maybe not hehe)... I never completed the original game when I played it and many people didn't, but it's one of my all time favourite games.

Anyway there are some minor graphics and music updates I will need soon but I'll let you guys know when I need them :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 06, 2009, 09:55:38 AM
And I also had about 3 weeks break from it (it helps with sanity having a break from coding).

Is that why I am as mad as a hatter? Jubber Jibber Gliff!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 06, 2009, 11:47:54 AM
Im of course happy to do more tunes or updates to this game. I just wanted to get music finished on MMLL first, because I realized this game got finished first and was a little behind. Now I have time to this game as well. Unlike MM, all tunes would been one XM.

Previous betats have more to get the rooms to work and also you can collect items and such.

There is also a gamefaq on this game as well, which you can look on for more info, here I wont link into that which should been easiy to find it. I readed on that documents there is also some flaws on the game as well, but have not played it very much, but I would do that when this game got released.

Flash, you could do a another little game based on the engine you have or start to learn C++ (or c) now?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 06, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
Flash, you could do a another little game based on the engine you have or start to learn C++ (or c) now?

I have to apply myself to C for a bit... Little steps first :) .. (how hard can it be - Christ, if HK can code it? LOL)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 06, 2009, 12:00:40 PM
I have to apply myself to C for a bit... Little steps first :) .. (how hard can it be - Christ, if HK can code it? LOL)

 :D :D :D lol :) Don't worry mate, C is easy... but I think HK wants you to learn C++ instead... now that's trouble! ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 06, 2009, 12:01:53 PM
Oh! Bugger and Bollocks :(
 :'(
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 06, 2009, 12:15:58 PM
... btw if HK is going to teach you C++, I'm very interested in following the same lessons too... I studied C++ some 12-14 years ago but almost never coded anything more than some exercises so I already forgot everything  :(  :( ...

 
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 06, 2009, 02:20:15 PM
Oh, I guess a description of the icons in the lower screen is needed. I never remember what each of them means... maybe just something that appears when you select one of them? And are you going to support touchscreen or not?


You know, I can't tell them either most of the time and yet I've designed them (following the original design though).
My problemo with those is not much in recognizing what the icons are but the way they're originally implemented in the game. I mean, back in the day when it was made it was prolly a breakthrough in interface usability but now it's...arrrr. I told HK that I couldn't even finish my own puzzle at  first because of this problem. I just hope it's me though and other people will be Ok with the way it works.  :-X
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 06, 2009, 02:28:45 PM
I think that if HK wants to keep the arrow pointing to the item, at least make that move smarter... I mean, press <right> once to skip to the second item, <down> once to go to the second line of items... thus 'snapping' to the item grid. Less work, uh?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 06, 2009, 03:18:52 PM
Ah, snapping, yeah that can be good as well. The original have this 'slide' thing but kinda 'press right/left once' to go one icon at a time is much better.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 07, 2009, 03:04:33 AM
The menu system in the original is a nightmare and believe it or not it's been improved alot in the DS version. How do I know? From playing the C64 original for many hours and then testing my version. It's a huge improvement and I wanted to keep some of that interface with the new version. But you guys are right, snapping to icons or something will probably be better. You should try controlling the original how it bounces off the sides of the menu, it's horrible! lol Anyway I am putting things like this in the "tweaks and polishing" stage of the game which will probably be 2 days before XMas or something lol

As for Flash learning C++, actually I don't know C++ very well at all. I mainly code in "C" but use C++ classes because I like OOP from coding in C#. Infact TDG is coding in pure "C" but most things are placed in C++ classes. I believe it's a nice compromise as well as the fact I taught myself to code "C" back in the Amiga days using a book called "Learning C for Advanced Programmers" which focused on Amiga's intuition API and sorta had me jumping in the deep end. I have not used things like std:: or vector's (which is just an ugly name for dynamic array's) etc. I'm still using good old fashioned arrays, oh and enum's instead of #define's but only minor things from C++. But yeah in most cases I would call my code "C" and it should be easier for Flash to grasp aswell.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 07, 2009, 04:11:28 PM
Yeah, the original was quite like that even though back then with a joystick it could be done. I mean, the controls in general for many games cwere so bloody hilarious it's hard to believe that we used to wiggle that way.
The whole bouncing in this one was probably meant to make it easier though, at least in the minds of developers.
Ohhh..if they just knew. :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 10, 2009, 04:10:39 AM
Quick mention of an update... all the murders are in place and working and all the ending combinations are now done.

Things left to do

- Improve character movement
- Implement "goals" for the Doctor who searches for Snide after first murder, Gabriel who will enter the study if it's unlocked, and you can also lock her in her room or study, and then finally Bentley's redevous with the Cook...
- Tweaks and improvements
- Testing

So pretty close now.. and should make XMas release quite comfortably methinks :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 10, 2009, 04:12:53 AM
Ooh yeah I forgot loading and saving.. that will be quite a mission to do.. that is where asm really shows it's style and how Flash just loads and saves a chunk of RAM in MMLL, unfortunately I can't do that in "C"...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 14, 2009, 09:50:06 PM
Did you reply the email you sent to me for a week ago? I first change the music about loops when I  have heard from you.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 15, 2009, 06:59:31 AM
What I'm waiting on is a reply from the MaxMod forums here (http://forums.devkitpro.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1601). The first question is if we can separate the xm's and share the samples in memory. The other is why the game crashes in No$ when I try and stop the song in the callback (using those custom messages). If I can't manually stop the songs in the callback we may have to have them loop over an empty block when the song ends which will probably be the best thing to do, and then you can add a fade out to the xm which will save me doing it manually in the game. But right now I can't stop the songs in the callback.

When a murder occurs I play the "murder organ" then the "tension music" starts. It should play once and then fade out. The other "slower ingame tune" only plays once for when you start the game but I think I may have it used elsewhere such as the gameover screen. The "tension music" also plays during the ending sequence.

BTW Demo is *very* close now, I have got the character movement where I am happy with it now. 99% of everything is in place, just have to add a few more GOAL's and will be sending out a new demo soon :) This should be the last demo before final touches and then release... Oh and I really am dreading implementing saving for this game!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 15, 2009, 09:05:41 AM
I drop loops on all songs, so they fade out or end instead. So I look on that today or tomorrow. So I think I do the opposite way, so if you want to restart the song, you can simply check when it end. I guess you can detect where the position it is, so you can detect end when it loop in a empty block.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 16, 2009, 07:39:03 PM
sorry for the delay, but tunes is sent with the updates with no loopings ingame songs.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 17, 2009, 07:30:06 AM
What I'm waiting on is a reply from the MaxMod forums here (http://forums.devkitpro.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1601).

Well, about the 1st question I can suggest you to take an XM and make some 3 or 4 copy of it with different names, then pack them together in a bank with MaxMod tools and check the size of that bank. If it remains almost the same as when you've had the single XM, then MaxMod it's surely sharing the samples between XMs. :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 17, 2009, 07:50:21 AM
Perhaps I should have used your library instead sverx as it sucks when the author of a library you're using dissappears or is not around to answer questions. Anyway what you suggest is a way of checking this, I will attach mmutil which is used to create a soundbank. It also has a test feature where it will create an nds ROM. If anyone gets a chance to try it, please let me know.

Run it like so:

Code: [Select]
mmutil -d -b song1.xm song2.xm
SF: Thanks for the music update, it works great now :) I like how it jumps from the tension song back to the main song then stops again. The main reason for this is so there is silence for the murder organ to hopefully give a bit of a fright like the original. Not sure if I'm replicating that well or not though. Anyway ingame you will hear the song about 5 times.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 17, 2009, 08:29:46 AM
Perhaps I should have used your library instead sverx as it sucks when the author of a library you're using dissappears or is not around to answer questions.

Well, happens. Maybe he was on vacation or busy or... dunno. I'm contacting him through IRC, I think he'll reply soon :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 17, 2009, 01:15:51 PM
Okay got a reply, and it's good to know you can use multiple xm's that share samples and it will automatically remove duplicates. Also you can't stop a song in the callback. Anyway we now have the music working pefectly so I don't think I'll bother asking SF to split the xm up.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 17, 2009, 03:14:33 PM
SF: Thanks for the music update, it works great now :) I like how it jumps from the tension song back to the main song then stops again. The main reason for this is so there is silence for the murder organ to hopefully give a bit of a fright like the original. Not sure if I'm replicating that well or not though. Anyway ingame you will hear the song about 5 times.

Its a bug and was not intended to jump to the other song :-D and it also wrong into wrong part of it..... But since you like it, I think I fix the song, so it start correctly to the other song instead midpart of it which it does now.

Fixed, a D4 should have been B4, but I do changed it to B3, since you liked that way it plays (even it really was a bug).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 19, 2009, 09:49:09 AM
'The press' today speaks about this project...

http://www.nintendomax.com/index.php?topic_id=10865
http://www.pdroms.de/news/20876/

don't ask me why...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 19, 2009, 10:36:40 AM
Well we can't keep it secret forever especially with Warhawk and MMLL here. I've been meaning to make a post on Retro Remakes about it but perhaps I will when next demo is ready. Speaking of which sorry about the delay on that, I've been tirelessly working on character "goals" and trying my best to replicate some of the quirky actions of characters. This means alot of time spent watching what characters do, tweaking etc. So next demo should be ready soon(ish)..
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 11:01:05 AM
I just love,

"déjà auteurs des excellents remake Manic Miner the Lost Levels et Warhawk DS,...."

It is nice that our work is getting such great attention :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 19, 2009, 11:09:23 AM
I just love,

"déjà auteurs des excellents remake Manic Miner the Lost Levels et Warhawk DS,...."

It is nice that our work is getting such great attention :)

Yeah see now they expect all of our games to be "des excellents".. not much pressure is there?  :'(  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 19, 2009, 06:43:39 PM
You have something to live up to, due Warhawk and MMLL :-D

Is the demo officiel or still internal. I guess just like before it want to been finished before release, even it mightbeen few bugs after a release.

It also took some times to update the news page on this frontpage as well and TDG is still not annoneced on the frontpage?

The game allready on that sate look awesome. The engine could also been used for other adventure games like this (Law of the West or such game example as I wrote about it eailer).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 06:47:52 PM
MMLL was not announced on the main page until it was released. I was just BLOODY stupid and release a demo (so so early) that several weeks later people found and posted. I will not make that mistake again.

I am hoping that I can get all my bits to build a new i7 pc in time for release so that I can do a really good release video for HK! I missed out on doing that for MMLL and the one I did eventually manage was poo!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 08:49:10 PM
I just love,

"déjà auteurs des excellents remake Manic Miner the Lost Levels et Warhawk DS,...."
It is nice that our work is getting such great attention :)

Be lucky that no 'Official Demo' was released on this site, then you would see a great attention.  :D

As for the video, don't bother too much with that, the game will always look better than bloody video. What I seriously dislike when people make videos (talking about PC games here) is when they do all that crap like-

'Prepare for the adventure...'
<text blurs then zooms in>

'...in which YOU are...'
<something swirly in the background>

'...DESTINED to discover...'
<some red color sliding from the left>

'...that....'

'...the game will be actual shit and this video is the best we could do!'
<sad music plays, trumpets>

 :-[
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 09:01:30 PM
Who rattle your fucking cage?

LOL

It is nice to release a video though. Not with zooming text and music, just a little video that people can watch to see the game in action before they download. Something that gives an indication to the type of game that is being presented.

We have never gone overboard on the videos. The only thing I have ever added was a last page to say that the game (Warhawk) was 100% ASM and contained no additives. Well, it was a giggle for me.

TONS of people will not know what this game is, they perhaps played the more mainstream titles. A video can help publicise a game.

ps. Did I rattle your cage? LOL
 :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 09:08:07 PM
Nono, just speaking in general cause most videos I see (usually PC titles) are like that, you know~

' Prepare to be Amazed last Thursday with a game coming in September..' or some shit like that. After like 10 minutes of the cut/paste slide events in After Effects/Flash you actually don't see anything of the game! Just that you should be prepared...for some obliteration of your optic nerves or something.

Both MM and WH videos were great, I'm not talking about that, just don't stress too much about those things, it's the game that's important and 'TDG' so far is the winner.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 09:13:34 PM
Phew!!
 ;D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 09:19:06 PM
Did I scare you again? Man, I have to stop doing this.  :D

In case of TDG, the video in hands of such people would look like this~

'Prepare to be amazed with..'
<text slowly zooms in>

'..Detective investigation that takes Detective..'
<text blends to the background with swirly photoshop filter>

'On the CASE!'
<all caps actually>

You know? If people who prefer video as promoting tool for games would consider for a moment what they're doing, the final cut would at least look like this~

'Prepare to be amazed with..'
<text appears at once, opacity 100%>

'..Detective with gastronomic problems..'
<slow moaning music>


'..farts..'
<trumpets>

' Coming this september last monday!'

 8)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 09:23:51 PM
That is PERFECT!

Ok, copied all to Premier!

Thanks!
 :P
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 09:35:01 PM
Excellent, than start crackin' yer pipe.  :D

Oh, Premier, haven't touch that since college methinks, it has to be like V.3000.5 by now.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on November 19, 2009, 09:40:56 PM
I could stop all of you if I was a squirrel.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 09:48:07 PM
I could stop everything if it wasn't for Absinthe, clouds my vision, cast shadows over yonder, across the meadow...frog...prepare to be amazed...Saturday in 2010.*










*that was Haiku, Antarctic style in case you didn't notice.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on November 19, 2009, 09:51:47 PM
I could stop all of you if I was a squirrel.

Oh...and that's because you're all nuts. ;D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 09:53:02 PM
Oh...and that's because you're all nuts. ;D

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 10:13:08 PM
Why is it that all topics here fall to pieces eventually?

I was thinking we should have an entire topic called 'Talking Bollocks", but then that would either not be used, or have conversations about something important in it? Somehow I think we are failing in keeping topics 'on course'.

We were thinking of assigning a new Moderator for the board, but everyone we know on here is just as fucking bad (HK and Myself included) LOL..

Oh god! See what I mean, even in mentioning that this topic is a bit 'off the rails' has made me do the same!

How do we control the madness?

or, should we?

or... hmmmm!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 10:26:41 PM
Probably because there is nothing going on. All the work is done 'behind the curtains' anyway so unless something problematic is reported (say xm related :P) or some testing to be done, there isn't too much going on via posting, you know. When there is something about the game to be posted, then it gets posted and commented proper. Otherwise, the topics like this and WH and MM would really fall behind and be totally lost if we had, say General Topic of some kind to post random crap in. This way, we kinda keep the topics alive until some serious info about it is released.

But maybe some general topic is cool though but yeah, we might end up posting serious stuff in there :P.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 10:31:13 PM
I suppose we have general discusion?
http://greatflash.co.uk/index.php?board=1.0 (http://greatflash.co.uk/index.php?board=1.0)

That can get pretty vague sometimes? LOL
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 10:43:24 PM
Yes, we do but the problem is that whenever something new is posted in different topics (MM, WH, TDG), the general conversation is instantly forgotten and buried. I always look at the front page and comment on what's posted in there so if the general topic response is not on the list, pheew, takes me forever to dig it out (I'm getting old ya know).

However, I don't think that it's bad that the game related topics gets jokes here and there in between more serious responses about eventual problems. That's because the questions about the game do get responded to, it's just that jokes are the filler in between those. It is different to other places where say, I would post a game and ask about the problems with it and someone would respond with 'What time is it?' or something completely unrelated. From there on, 20 people will answer the time question and game related answers are done at that point. I'm sorta used to it by now but I don't think it's generally happening here, again, because all the questions about the game are actually answered (sometimes in a silly fashion but still answered).  8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 10:46:02 PM
Also, it's not that we sit on our asses and just do silly jokes on forums, three games so far are the proof that things are done and well done if I may add, regardless of what gets to be posted in forum.  :-*
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 19, 2009, 11:12:56 PM
Also, it's not that we sit on our asses and just do silly jokes on forums, three games so far are the proof that things are done and well done if I may add, regardless of what gets to be posted in forum.  :-*

Nope, that is not good enough!! Sadly, I will have to unleash the HK!

Run, Run, Run (and none of that running and falling over business - thats for girls), Run..


Oh you poor sweet lamb!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 11:25:40 PM
Talk about topic derail.  :)

Nope, that is not good enough!! Sadly, I will have to unleash the HK!

Slave driver!  :'(
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 19, 2009, 11:46:14 PM
I had to check the topic title for a sec there.. is my precious topic being derailed?? Key sample of Darth Vader screaming Nooooooooooooooo...

Well while you cheeky bastards were posting nonsense I've been working on TDG. Got so much done tonight, I even played through the whole game by following a walkthrough for the original and completed it :) So yes we're very nearly ready for a demo. I'm thinking I should probably do another session before sending out the next demo though (and yes it will be internal) just to be sure most things work as expected. Unfortunately it's quite a tedious game to test.. great game to play when you don't know everything in the game etc. but pretty tedious otherwise especially waiting around for certain events to occur *yawn*... Also it was quite a bit of work to get that Butler and Cook fornicating properly ;)

Anyway I don't mind a bit of derailing we do it in every topic, keeps the place alive and it's kinda our little playground so fuck it I say... do what thou wilt to be the whole of the topic!  :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 19, 2009, 11:53:36 PM
..So yes we're very nearly ready for a demo.

Woot?  :o  Excellent news, so it will be on time this train!

Anyway I don't mind a bit of derailing we do it in every topic, keeps the place alive and it's kinda our little playground so fuck it I say... do what thou wilt to be the whole of the topic!  :D

Agreed. Wait..that's exactly what I was trying to say in 765 words or less! Oh, dear!  :-[

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 20, 2009, 10:52:47 PM
Just saw you posted the announcement on RR, excellent!  :-*
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 02:06:46 PM
Okay I was going to do another coding session before releasing the demo, but I'm not getting any work done at the moment so I'm going to release the demo now. Still a few things missing, namely loading and saving and saving Angus' soul. Not really needed for testing.

I must warn you that it can be a bit tedious waiting for the murders. I have currently put them at around 15 minutes apart. This is even less than the original. I think I will change it back to closer to the original for the final and make it a bit more random. But it's quite painful waiting around when you're just testing things so I tend to trigger them even closer. Anyway it's about time I released this demo, so I can start getting feedback before final release. Oh and the binary is currently 2.83 MB (gulp). So I will probably have to implement EFS/FAT loading but I don't know what to externalise. I guess I could have the xm's loaded externally which will save about 600k or perhaps implement compression for it. It's a bit annoying though to have external loading for just a couple of files. It sucks because it runs fine on both the R4 and Acekard 2i. It's annoying to have to support these crappy cards that only have ~2MB remaining for a binary.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 22, 2009, 02:31:28 PM
Even the crappy cards will work when used via DSorganise. So, perhaps just a note in the release readme?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 03:34:44 PM
I found a quite indepth video of the original game on YouTube, thought it would post it here. It might actually help some of the team learn how to play the game ;)



EDIT: I just noticed the sprites are sometimes flipped horizontally.. wierd ???
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 04:02:26 PM
The cover has pretty much been done. Thanks to Lobo (and Flash for help with the back cover).

(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdgfront.png)
(http://headsoft.com.au/images/tdgback.png)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 22, 2009, 04:54:09 PM
I still think it should end with

"CAN YOU FINGER THE KILLER"
 :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
'Can you kill the finger killer'? ;)

The waiting in game is sorta weird. I use to get (in the original) the first murder to happen just after arriving to my room then leaving for another hall, can't be more than 5 minutes total? I think the original requirements were simply as long as you're not on the floor/room/next to the person to be killed...than the murder can occur earlier/later?
Maybe you can have it like that, so the game checks if you're not on the same floor and at least a few minutes have passed (5 or so) and triggers the murder?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 07:20:15 PM
Normally the time inbetween murders is used to find evidence and talk to the characters. If you play the original through with a walkthrough, write down the times the murders happen. You still have to wait around it seems. I think it's mainly triggered by time (and when your upstairs or downstairs), like I have done in the remake. Perhaps it's not so much time but based what you have collected or something? Please correct me if I'm wrong though I can change it around. It's not much of a game though if you can complete it in 20 minutes. I don't think I should design the game so it can be completed quickly using a walkthrough. But I'm happy to hear thoughts, but the idea is to remake the original not make it easier or quicker to complete. I've spent alot of time playing the original, but in most cases I save state in various parts of the game. It's just too much work going from the start each time to examine characters and events. But if I've missed anything I'm all ears and there is still plenty of time to modify things.

Damn I wish I could contact the original author and "pick his brain".
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
True, you don't want to end the game quickly. What might be a good idea is to start off with the first murder pretty soon (no longer than 10 minutes say) and then trigger the other murders based on these conditions met~

A) Not on the same floor
B) Not in the same room (obv) :P
C) Not with the character to be done for (very obv)

 PLUS - if you found a piece of evidence or two in 15 minutes in between each murder? The game can still trigger the next murder in case you didn't found any evidence in the first 15 minutes and ABC conditions are met?
This means that all the people who get any piece of evidence in say, 8 minutes cause they're fast/smart/cheating ( :D), can trigger the next murder earlier without waiting for say another 7 minutes (as long as the ABC is cleared)?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 22, 2009, 08:34:40 PM
Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 08:45:54 PM
Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!

Have you even played the game yet?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 08:47:57 PM
Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!

 :)

I'm still playing though, need to report back after I've finished it. Just one thing for the action cursor, as you can see on the images, is not to go too low (picture1) perhaps? Rather to stay along the Y like in 'picture2'? That way you can still see the actual icon without the arrow going too low.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 09:39:08 PM
Ugh, a little problem. Briefcase in Dingle's room, it's locked but the key (got it) to open it..I've managed to put it IN the briefcase so now I cannot get it out cause the thing is locked. YAY!  :)
So..yeah, you might wanna make it impossible to put anything in locked stuff until they're unlocked.
Now I gotta go play again.  :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 10:00:03 PM
Just to mention the timing thing. I think it works quite well at least until the first murder happens. As soon as Bentley left the room, I went to the library to..er..look for something and drawing room. Picked up both things and Doc came to tell me that Dingle has been murdered. I reckon that no more than 10 minutes passed all together? Or requirements were met before time? Whichever way, it worked quite well and fast so there was no 'let's walk around forever until something happens'.  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 10:48:53 PM
Ugh, a little problem. Briefcase in Dingle's room, it's locked but the key (got it) to open it..I've managed to put it IN the briefcase so now I cannot get it out cause the thing is locked. YAY!  :)
So..yeah, you might wanna make it impossible to put anything in locked stuff until they're unlocked.
Now I gotta go play again.  :)

Funny thing is I just tried doing this in the original and it does the same thing lol I changed it so you can't do that and also made the menu system have an 8 pixel inner boundary so you can't move the pointer right to the edge anymore.

I can either make the murders happen very early in the game or just have an extra trigger based on what you're carrying. The reason Dingle's murder happens so quickly is because it's triggered only after 2 minutes from starting the game and you're not in Dingles room. So it's pretty much immediate, then Doctor goes and checks out the scene, then finds you. The rest of murders are set 15 minutes apart which is boring to wait for, but I'm pretty sure it's how the original works. The thing is we are following walkthrough's and not playing the game how it's meant to be played. I guess it's worth changing so there is less waiting around, but what should the early triggers be based on. What you're carrying? If so should the items need to be in the padded envelopes?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 23, 2009, 02:14:56 AM
Yeah, I think I remember reading about the briefcase problem before somewhere.  :)

As for the triggers, to make the murder happen earlier I guess adding one or two important clues(per murder) in your inventory would be fine (without putting them in envelope)?
If you don't have them then murders should occur as in the original game. Maybe this way, we make it faster for people who might get the items (clues) faster so they don't need to wait for whatever is default time between the murders. It still shouldn't happen instantly but instead, say waiting 15 min between murders is the case, player finds two things in 3 min, so instead of another 12 min of waiting it can be only 2 or something?

Granted, this means nothing when you play the game for the first time but the benefit is for the later, once you know the important items at the beginning, you pick them up and don't have to wait too long for the next murder.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on November 23, 2009, 02:20:49 AM
Forgot one thing, I've asked HK about it and seems there is some 'metallic' kinda feeling to the music. Once you start it can be heard quite well, especially with higher tone?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 23, 2009, 06:06:08 AM
That is someting Im testing this week when I got the game install is how it works with the speacker. I think song compression is not needed, if you seperate it to a filesystem. There is 2 xm files.

It also take some time to find the itmes first if you dosent use a FAQ, and of course you should do close to the original, so practical would that been issue if you DONT known where the items is?

EDIT:
There is no sound at all on AceCard II, cant hear anything?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 23, 2009, 07:52:04 AM
Starting to test this release from this eve, I'll tell you my first impressions tomorrow :)

Bye! :D

(what happened to the icons ?? gosh! )

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 23, 2009, 03:25:24 PM
There is no sound at all on AceCard II, cant hear anything?

Are you using the unofficial AKAIO firmware? If so MaxMod does not seem to work correctly with this card. Yo may need the Official Version 4.18 Firmware (http://www.acekard.com/download/ak2/ak2_418_20090730_release.zip). I posted a message about this on the MaxMod forums but there has been no helpful reply.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 23, 2009, 08:18:08 PM
that works with full sound and music. Now I can enjoy the game and test it correctly.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 23, 2009, 08:34:10 PM
Using unofficial firmware...

BAD SF!! Bad boy!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 23, 2009, 09:51:47 PM
I downloaded from the AceCard OFFICEL site, so it might have been bad designed :D or have downloaded a wrong one, or used a older one (but still works nicely).

I only have problems whith THIS game only with no sound at all and there is still stutter with music (which I now guess it caused by some samples), but look on the other thread, so never noticed it.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 23, 2009, 10:10:47 PM
It's a MaxMod issue not a TDG issue. I actually stripped down a project to only play a song using MaxMod and it didn't work with the AKAIO firmware. You can view my post about this problem here (http://forums.devkitpro.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1569). I personally think it's a bug in MaxMod.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 23, 2009, 10:18:17 PM
please note, it DID work on the file you pointed to. so I confirm it can work on AceCard II, I guess you should point about it on the readme.

So I have to agree with WinterMute as its look more a firmware bug, since it does works with the officiel firmware. The firmware also works somewhere better in warhawk too (stutter less, but when it does, it allways caused by a "start" sample)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on November 23, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
I will just say, the game works perfect on the ak2i on a DSi. Sound and all.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 24, 2009, 06:59:14 AM
Here are some bugs/glitches I found yesterday eve, testing the game some 15 minutes.

- If you click on <use object>, then click on an empty space in the list and then the 'drop' icon, you can obtain "You drop (null)" message.
- If you do the same a couple of times more and clicking randomly on screen you can hang the game (I did it twice but I can't describe exactly how to reproduce it)
- In detective's room, if you go close to the bed you can walk 'down' at its side but you can't walk 'up'.
- In suspects list you can't select the last of them tapping on the arrow keys (not a bug, btw)
- The 'steps' sound effect starts always from the same step, I guess it should be better if you make it start from the second step sometimes, to change how it sounds a bit.

About the music and AKAIO firmware... I guess it's simply that speakers aren't enabled and/or output is muted on this firmware and you're not changing this in your code. May I suggest two tests to SF?
- Go back to that firmware again (temporarily ;) )
- Test TDG using headphones: did you hear the music this time?
- Try launching MMLL and tell us if it sounds correctly.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on November 24, 2009, 09:58:47 AM
Funny thing is I just tried doing this in the original and it does the same thing lol I changed it so you can't do that and also made the menu system have an 8 pixel inner boundary so you can't move the pointer right to the edge anymore.

I can either make the murders happen very early in the game or just have an extra trigger based on what you're carrying. The reason Dingle's murder happens so quickly is because it's triggered only after 2 minutes from starting the game and you're not in Dingles room. So it's pretty much immediate, then Doctor goes and checks out the scene, then finds you. The rest of murders are set 15 minutes apart which is boring to wait for, but I'm pretty sure it's how the original works. The thing is we are following walkthrough's and not playing the game how it's meant to be played. I guess it's worth changing so there is less waiting around, but what should the early triggers be based on. What you're carrying? If so should the items need to be in the padded envelopes?

Delurking...

I'd suggest having them triggered by either time or by the player having collected the right items, whichever comes first. If a player dallies too long finding his evidence, then the game doesn't need to wait for him to figure it out - but if a veteran (or at least someone who knows the first half by now) is at work he shouldn't be made to wait for too long. My suggestion would be to have the second murder triggered by collecting all evidence on the first scene, up to opening the briefcase and retrieving the piece inside as well. Putting them in padded envelopes or not is not something I'd include in the trigger. Locking of the door could happen simultaneously with the second murder, giving the player more leeway for leaving that room too early and making sure he is not locked out (and into an unwinnable situation) unless he really delays.

Second crime scene spawns no evidence so the third could be based on having witnessed it and perhaps having the player do some legwork on the evidence that's not specifically tied to a murder (black bag, bomb, and/or the will). Fourth crime scene's trigger could be finding the murder weapon of the third.

Other things to decide on is what exactly triggers the appearance of the bomb (for the original, I think it's witnessing the second murder scene + a short timer, not sure), and, very significantly, the item in the study. Be cautious about having it disappearing more quickly based on the player's actions, as this is a critical point and another potential scenario for rendering the case unwinnable.

While you're at it and if you haven't done it already, I'd fix some of the oddities from the original - the evidence items not marked as evidence, the freeform entry of values for the safe (which kept ME stuck for over a decade, at least). Are you considering expanding dialogue on characters (especially for item descriptions) too? The original has VERY few characters responding in any way to any item shown, including ones they should reasonably react to.

Tried to keep things mostly spoiler free for this post - I don't know if this is necessary here? If I'm surrounded by people who've completed the game already I may be overly cautious, but I'd rather be sure I don't spoil anybody.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 24, 2009, 10:39:50 AM
I have not completed the game yet, but hence welcome to the board :-D. Anyway nice post and I guess you have completed the original as well.

There is no reason to fix no sound bug in the unofficiel firmware, since it works completly fine with the officiel firmware (as I wrote)! For the sound its was only happens on this game, and in warhawk stutter to much to been real playable (sorry). It still stutter with the officiel firmware, but I guess the 2 samples I describted in the other thread might cause the music to stutter, and should played delayed or have a option to not play them.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 25, 2009, 07:30:09 AM
I've never even played this game before, so I really don't know what's going to happen. Well, yesterday evening after some 20 minutes playing I found a dead body. Then that man was alive again (changed his appearance from a corpse to a living person again) and, even if he isn't walking at all, I could question him. No answers, fortunately ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on November 25, 2009, 09:09:48 AM
Yeah, that would be either a bug or a very new twist to the storyline :O

Anyway yeah, I've finished the original - wrote a walkthrough on it a few years ago. Of course I myself needed a walkthrough to get through it completely, but I've never been able to refind the document I used. It was somewhere in an obscure corner of the internet.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 25, 2009, 12:55:56 PM
... or a very new twist to the storyline

ahahah, didn't consider that point of view ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 26, 2009, 01:29:15 AM
I've never even played this game before, so I really don't know what's going to happen. Well, yesterday evening after some 20 minutes playing I found a dead body. Then that man was alive again (changed his appearance from a corpse to a living person again) and, even if he isn't walking at all, I could question him. No answers, fortunately ;)

Can you give me more info on this? Which character was it? When he came back alive, where was it? This is a very strange bug.

Sashanan: Welcome to the boards and thanks for the feedback :) I think I will have the events trigger earlier if you have the evidence up to the next murder in your inventory. If you're interested in helping beta test I can send you out the current game. If you don't have a Nintendo DS you can run it through the No$ emulator.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 26, 2009, 07:13:04 AM
Can you give me more info on this? Which character was it? When he came back alive, where was it? This is a very strange bug.

Ahem... I'm not very good with names... it's that gentleman with a "Bowler Hat". He was standing still exactly where his corpse was a minute before, and he wasn't moving at all. Don't know what else to describe. :-[

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on November 26, 2009, 09:02:45 PM
Some Improvements for the item system:

- Item icon should disappear after a while. When I played it it just stay even I walked around until I used the menu.
- Return to game by pressing the A button when you are in a menu.
- In the first murder, yes he was dead, BUT if you trying to ask him something, he would been in waiting position, but he do never walk. So its a simple bug I guess to fix that one, to checking out you can't ask a dead person.

Music does actually works surpricely really nice, even with the DS speaker.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on November 26, 2009, 11:16:58 PM
Ahh okay I found the bug where you can still question characters who are dead. That is fixed now. Also am taking notes of other suggestions. Fixed most bugs reported so far. Thanks for the feedback guys :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on November 27, 2009, 07:44:02 AM
Sashanan: Welcome to the boards and thanks for the feedback :) I think I will have the events trigger earlier if you have the evidence up to the next murder in your inventory. If you're interested in helping beta test I can send you out the current game. If you don't have a Nintendo DS you can run it through the No$ emulator.

You're welcome :) I love the idea of this project and I'll be happy to help where I can. For testing, well, I do have a DS but it's fully unmodified and I want to keep it that way, so emulation would be my best bet. I have zero experience with DS emulation though. Won't dual screen and for that matter touchscreen functionality be a royal pain to emulate? Or are those not a problem for this game? If possible I'd be happy to help test it.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on November 27, 2009, 07:45:25 AM
Ahh okay I found the bug where you can still question characters who are dead. That is fixed now. Also am taking notes of other suggestions. Fixed most bugs reported so far. Thanks for the feedback guys :)

Funny thing about that, that bug was halfway there in the original game too. Normally, if there was no one in the room with you, the ? icon wouldn't show up, but if you were in the room with a corpse it would. Though if you clicked it it would still say there was nobody in the room.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on November 27, 2009, 08:05:32 AM
I do have a DS but it's fully unmodified and I want to keep it that way, so emulation would be my best bet.

You don't need to modify the DS, just sort of an 'adaptor' which reads microSD and where you can store your homebrew. This is just the size of a NDS regular cart. Emulation is good enough, anyway :) Check no$gba, dual screen and touch are not a problem (in the emulator you use the mouse to touch the screen...)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 02, 2009, 09:33:51 AM
Sashanan: I'll include you in the next demo send out.

Okay spent quite a bit of time implementing loading and saving. This is probably the only thing in C that is harder to do than in asm since you can't just load and save a chunk of memory. Anyway that is a very big and painful job out of the way. So we are very close to finishing now.

Things left to do..

- Make it so murders will trigger earlier if you are holding all collectable evidence for that time frame
- I am considering changing the 4 pieces of unmarked evidence to marked. Still not definite though but I was going to do this originally and since it's been requested aswell I think it might be worth doing. It will make the game much easier to finish (dunno if that's a good or bad thing really). Also considering having more replies to different objects. I'm not sure about this either, I do want to fix the annoying parts of the original but want to be careful not to over do it.
- One last demo test session.. then release.. I'm aiming for a December release (should be before XMas still)

Also attached is a screenshot showing how I've enhanced the menu system a bit so when you roll over an icon it tells you what it is. This seemed to be a common problem and I must admit even had it a bit myself. I preferred the original design better but this one is more practical.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 02, 2009, 09:55:30 AM
Okay spent quite a bit of time implementing loading and saving. This is probably the only thing in C that is harder to do than in asm since you can't just load and save a chunk of memory. Anyway that is a very big and painful job out of the way. So we are very close to finishing now.

I'm curious about that... aren't you using a filesystem? So loading/saving actually shouldn't be anthing else but reading/writing a single C struct to a file, am I mistaken? I'm asking because I've never done that yet and I'd like to know what you did in there...



Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 02, 2009, 10:26:43 AM
I'm curious about that... aren't you using a filesystem? So loading/saving actually shouldn't be anthing else but reading/writing a single C struct to a file, am I mistaken? I'm asking because I've never done that yet and I'd like to know what you did in there...

TDG is written in C using C++ classes so much of the game data is stored in objects. For each object that needed data saved I wrote a Load() and Save() method that takes a pointer to a "CSave" object which takes care of all the saving using helper functions such as WriteByte(), WriteUInt16(), ReadUInt32() etc. If you're storing all your game data in a struct then yes it's a simple matter of writing that off to disk. It's not such a hard thing to do if you code the loading and saving routines as you go but I left it to the last minute. Still I wouldn't have designed it differently to how I have now.

On a side note one thing that C# and .NET languages have that native C doesn't is reflection which enables you to serialize a class directly to disk (in xml format) which is a very convenient way to load and save objects.

Are you coding your game using OOP? If so the way I describe is probably the only way to do it in C++.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 02, 2009, 10:35:05 AM
Are you coding your game using OOP? If so the way I describe is probably the only way to do it in C++.

I know, it's that using classes then your data will be private and you need methods to load/save them OR you need something (another method maybe?) that copies your data from/to another object and this last one needs load/save methods (I guess I'd choose this way...). Btw... no, I'm, not coding it with OOP, just plain C. But I also don't think I'll have a full save game feature, just a simple hi-score save, you know.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 02, 2009, 11:00:23 AM
The way you describe is how I do it, everything is copied into a buffer in another object and then saved to disk in a large chunk. There is a variable that keeps track of the current buffer position and increments it based on the data read and written via it's internal helper methods. The data saved is 24 KB in size and I have 5 x 32 KB save slots available in the game. Compare that to something like MMLL which has less than 1 KB save data you can imagine it's quite a bit of data that needed to be stored. Obviously this game doesn't have hiscores so I didn't need to worry about that.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 02, 2009, 12:05:44 PM
The way you describe is how I do it, everything is copied into a buffer in another object and then saved to disk in a large chunk.

Oh, good. Thanks for explaining :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 02, 2009, 01:54:14 PM
Sashanan: I'll include you in the next demo send out.

- I am considering changing the 4 pieces of unmarked evidence to marked. Still not definite though but I was going to do this originally and since it's been requested aswell I think it might be worth doing. It will make the game much easier to finish (dunno if that's a good or bad thing really). Also considering having more replies to different objects. I'm not sure about this either, I do want to fix the annoying parts of the original but want to be careful not to over do it.

You could do a easy and normal version, where the easy version whould been easier to find the items and marked and the hard they are not marked. Items could also been moved a bit around in the easy mode, so you can complete and enjoy the game 2 times (with full story only in normal mode).... Or something like this.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 03, 2009, 08:57:54 AM
Hey Lobo do you think the new menu looks alright?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 03, 2009, 06:54:38 PM
Looks great to me and the actual description is quite welcomed too. I'm yet to finish the test demo thingy, got sidetracked a bit.  :-\
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 04, 2009, 02:37:06 AM
I will be releasing another demo soonish that will be much better and will include loading and saving and also if you collect all evidence it will trigger murders quicker so less waiting around. Should be alot less painful to test ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 04, 2009, 07:18:42 AM
... and also if you collect all evidence it will trigger murders quicker so less waiting around.

Oh good :) Waiting for that :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 07, 2009, 08:36:58 PM
You could do a easy and normal version, where the easy version whould been easier to find the items and marked and the hard they are not marked. Items could also been moved a bit around in the easy mode, so you can complete and enjoy the game 2 times (with full story only in normal mode).... Or something like this.

I was thinking something along the same lines but going slightly farther: a "new" and a "classic" mode. I'm thinking along the lines of Impossible Mission for the DS here, which had the option of making the game look and sound completely like the original next to the new look. Similarly, having such a split here could let you go wild in the "new" version on anything you want to change that might make the game better in your opinion - timing on the murders, dialogue with other guests, marking items as evidence - while still preserving everything as is in the "classic" mode. Best of both worlds. Just more work. :P
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 09, 2009, 09:54:53 PM
I'm are just now testing your lastest version today.

These things does not effect gameplay elements at all, and then no reason to fix it if you wont:
 - First I think was in the pause menu, there should hold the b button to restart the game.... So you don't hit that button by accident (I actuelly did that once).
 - The drop sound in the washer room start when it the water start to drop and not when it hit on floor (as that it sound).
 - In the same room, it the water still drop in the pause menu.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 09, 2009, 11:05:54 PM
Well spotted SF..


HONESTLY HK, what are you playing at?

;)

I will have to get some testing doen in the next day or two. I have to also do something nice for a vid... I remember that someone was going to send an audio file.... no, who was that? hm. nope, it's gone!!! LOL
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 10, 2009, 10:41:57 AM
Must make sure to run another test tonight. It looked very promising, had a few kinks to work out but those should have been worked out in the latest version I've got in my inbox now. Just bad luck that last night marked both the release of the final episode of Tales of Monkey Island and a major content update for World of Warcraft and there's just only so many hours in an evening :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 10, 2009, 03:37:30 PM
Some (minor) problems I found:
- When you go close to a bed you can walk 'down' but you can't walk 'up'.
- In the dining room you can walk so close to the table that chair legs looks closer than the investigator, even if you can see the chairs are behind him.
- Colonel speaks and grumbles in the same sentence, such as "Colonel speaks: '<something>' Colonel grumbles".
- Savegame slots do not change names so you can't say if they're free or busy. I think they should be named 'empty slot #x' or 'save @ hh:mm' instead.

I'm home with sore throat so if you don't find some of these I understand ;)

See ya later, I guess.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 11, 2009, 02:11:36 PM
Some more: also when going close to the right end of a room you can walk up but you can't walk down, the opposite of what happens when going close to a bed.
- "Colonel" actually is "Mayor" ;)
- When swapping upper and lower screen I guess touchscreen should be disabled... (or, even better, you could make the inspector move to the place you selected touching the screen...)
- Bentley locked me in his room after leaving (!!!) I couldn't do anything else but leave the game.
- Once I've seen the 'pause' panel appeared behind some sprites, I think it was Bentley. I couldn't reproduce that again, though. :|

Hope this helps!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 11, 2009, 02:41:18 PM
That'll teach ya for snouting around in Bentley's room LOL...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 11, 2009, 03:06:58 PM
Thanks for the feedback sverx. I have implemented the suggestion you gave about the save slots. The only thing I probably won't be fixing is the diagonal collision issues. Since I'm using an 8x8 collision map you can get "stuck" if you try and move too close to the edge. The only way to fix this would be to calculate everything on an angle and I don't think it's that much of a problem to warrant putting the effort in. I'm not worried about it too much since the original game is the same. Not sure about the pause panel appearing behind sprites. If you get locked in Bentley's room and you've already taken the keys from his jacket in the cupboard then you will have to restart - same as the original ;)

Peter has been working with me to make the game a bit easier, such as marking the bomb as evidence and adding in some extra dialog.

SF: Can you please send Flash mp3 versions of the music for the YouTube video?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 11, 2009, 03:30:35 PM
allready done, I do first can resend the tune again on mondag, due my motherboard is dead and have ordered a new. I do still have the dropbox link, so I PM Flash it. Its the Studio version of it.....
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 11, 2009, 07:07:15 PM
Some more: also when going close to the right end of a room you can walk up but you can't walk down, the opposite of what happens when going close to a bed.
- Bentley locked me in his room after leaving (!!!) I couldn't do anything else but leave the game.

Hope this helps!



I've noticed the same thing at the right end of rooms.

For Bentley, he does this in the original as well - as part of his regular rounds he sometimes enters his room (your chance to do the same) and relocks it upon leaving. The means to get yourself out are in fact in that same room - though if you removed them previously, follow him into his room and THEN get locked in, you have no choice but to wait until he returns. He will, but it may take a while. :)

Examining the wall to the left of the knight armour in McFungus' room gives a "You see: (null)" message.

I'd like to report the ease of restarting the game from the pause menu as a bug. As I just discovered, it's very easy to do this accidentally when you intended to resume. A confirmation dialogue would be very welcome.

By the way, I goofed on the item descriptions for the Doctor, I just found. The line I'd put for the Bottle of Pills was actually intended for the Small Bottle. It's the Reverend that should (and does) react to the Bottle of Pills.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 11, 2009, 07:18:45 PM
Actually I forgot about that if you wait for Bentley he will eventually unlock the door again.

Lobo could you please change the pause graphic to be X+Y for restart. That should fix that problem.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 12, 2009, 02:23:24 AM
Righty, just finished it finally(**), played on DS (AK 2). Had two white screens at the beginning, lasted for quite a long time (I've almost turned the DS off) but then I remembered that WH had the same thing and the game started after a while.
So...everything seemed Ok, I didn't really tried to break the walls or walk through beds ( here and there I did but couldn't find a hole  :) ). The second murder took a while to happen but the rest was faster. Music still sounds 'metallic' somewhat (I used headphones) and it doesn't loop, is it not supposed to loop (dunno what was the latest on that front though so just asking)?
Interface/icons is less confusing now with the actual description, I was waiting for this one so I cannot drink or use what I shouldn't.
All in all, seems quite solid, now for the (**), end...well I got killed. Basically, I had those two items in my inventory proper (blank replaced with regular as well) and as soon as I did the 'accuse' and the lights went off I couldn't access the inventory in order to select the..err, 'item' (spoilers  :) ) so I was killed. I did save before it so I tried a couple of more times pressing everything madly while foaming but couldn't, so how did you plan to go about this thing as I can't figure it out?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 12, 2009, 07:12:13 AM
Righty, just finished it finally(**), played on DS (AK 2). Had two white screens at the beginning, lasted for quite a long time (I've almost turned the DS off) but then I remembered that WH had the same thing and the game started after a while.
So...everything seemed Ok, I didn't really tried to break the walls or walk through beds ( here and there I did but couldn't find a hole  :) ). The second murder took a while to happen but the rest was faster. Music still sounds 'metallic' somewhat (I used headphones) and it doesn't loop, is it not supposed to loop (dunno what was the latest on that front though so just asking)?
Interface/icons is less confusing now with the actual description, I was waiting for this one so I cannot drink or use what I shouldn't.
All in all, seems quite solid, now for the (**), end...well I got killed. Basically, I had those two items in my inventory proper (blank replaced with regular as well) and as soon as I did the 'accuse' and the lights went off I couldn't access the inventory in order to select the..err, 'item' (spoilers  :) ) so I was killed. I did save before it so I tried a couple of more times pressing everything madly while foaming but couldn't, so how did you plan to go about this thing as I can't figure it out?


If you get killed, there is something you failed to do in advance of trying the arrest - you won't get a chance to use any items in this case. Noting the message you get upon dying provides a hint as to what to do, if you've kept your eyes peeled while exploring the mansion.

That's about as in depth as I can go in public but I can be more clear through a private message if you wish. :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 12, 2009, 08:44:30 AM
I've added a "Loading.. please wait" message for when EFS is searching the card for the ROM. It's usually alot quicker the subsiquent times you load it. Also the second murder will only take place in the quicker mode if you grab a certain item of evidence (check your bed). I've also e-mailed Lobo about how he can get to the finish line.. oh and added X+Y to restart :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 12, 2009, 02:17:16 PM
I know what is the reason, I've forgot to 'replace' the item but instead 'picked' it up, meaning the enemy didn't get the replaced item, that's why he shoots. Damn. That's triggered then automatically, the sequence if you pick it up or not. I guess it has to work like that anyway cause shootout is not possible.

Reverend has some weird pause at the door of the Drawing Room, stays there for a while as if stuck (right off the safe).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 12, 2009, 07:54:01 PM
One more possible improvement I thought of: in the clock room, if the sounds of the click ticking and chiming are two separate sound effects, perhaps it's possible to make it chime on the hour (and the right number of times) rather than one chime whenever you enter the room? It'd be a nice touch.

Not that I'm ever still playing by 10 am but... :P
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 12, 2009, 07:59:31 PM
I noticed that one too, but I guess that chimes was just for atmosphere and not for timing, elsewise you rarely newer hear it. hence I diddent report that one.

 Howver i guess it would been nice to randomize chimes (on a lower volume I guess) once sometimes you enter a room after a few secunds, but do allways chimes correctly on the hour and the half hour as well.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 12, 2009, 08:18:34 PM
One more possible improvement I thought of: in the clock room, if the sounds of the click ticking and chiming are two separate sound effects, perhaps it's possible to make it chime on the hour (and the right number of times) rather than one chime whenever you enter the room? It'd be a nice touch.

Not that I'm ever still playing by 10 am but... :P


I must admit, I really like that idea :) It would give the gameworld a little bit more reality.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 12, 2009, 08:35:06 PM
I have thought about that too. I already have the clock showing the real time so I guess it would be nice to have it chime correctly too. Well I still have about a week before release so probably will add it sometime.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 13, 2009, 12:53:45 PM
I must admit, I really like that idea :) It would give the gameworld a little bit more reality.

I don't know about "giving the gameworld a little bit more reality" but in my remake of Spiky Harold there is an image of a clock in the corner of the screen, along with a counter showing how long you've been playing, and instead of a static image with the hands fixed I'm drawing an image of the clock without it's hands and then reading the systemtime and drawing the hands on top, so it's always got the correct time shown on that small clock. Just a funny little detail. :)

But, yeah, I think it'd be a great idea in TDG too. ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 13, 2009, 04:56:49 PM
any plans to convert this to IPhone, sicne this game was coded in C? I think this game might suit both platform nice. Only diffecent might been a change the interface, because you have no buttons, howover it could been a point a click type adventure with same gameplay?

the game should been free, unless we can deal with the original copyright holder.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 14, 2009, 07:37:19 AM
I have thought about that too. I already have the clock showing the real time so I guess it would be nice to have it chime correctly too. Well I still have about a week before release so probably will add it sometime.

Sounds good. In the meantime, if you can send me an updated text file I have time to go over the entire dialogue content one more time, I don't think anything else needs to be added but just to give the entire thing a thorough spelling/grammar check, missing full stops, that sort of thing.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 14, 2009, 04:48:11 PM
Been playing today and there is one little thing that does not look right to me?

When you walk into an impassable object, your legs continue to animate, would it not look nicer to have the legs return to a standing position if a move is not allowed?

I know it is only a little thing, but... it may look more natural.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 14, 2009, 06:35:17 PM
The walking in place is consistent with the original but if it's easy to stop the animation if not moving is possible, that would indeed look better.

One thing I remember about the original too now that I think about it is that every time you ran into an object that could be interacted with - any container, or any door or doorway - the border of the screen would flash blue for a split second. I don't think this would look good to replicate, but it did have a function - you knew precisely when you got close enough to a bed or chest or drawers or something to investigate it. I think if animation of your character stopped upon running into an object, that'd not only look better but also take over the function of the blue flash in making it "click" with the player that he's in position to look for items.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 14, 2009, 09:33:21 PM
Okay now the walking anim stops when you walk into something. I've also made it so the footsteps are random sounds. Also clock now chimes the number of hours.

SpaceFractal: There is still that issue with the ingame music sounding "tinny". Well one particular sample that is played at the very beginning. It can be a little annoying. Is there any way to make it sound better? Perhaps even use a 16-bit version now that I'm using a file system now anyway.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 15, 2009, 06:40:20 AM
is it tune 4 and which sample? I diddent noticed any problem when I heard it. So which sample should I Look it, if its just one, I could convert that one problem sample to 16bit, not sure which one its is (or resample that again)? 16bit version use 800kb and I guess maxmod read the whole mod to the memory before playing, so do you have memory left?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 15, 2009, 03:41:50 PM
The audio samples and xm's are stored in a single soundbank.bin file and loaded from the external file system into memory. With the latest xm you sent the soundbank.bin file is 1.55 MB. The DetectiveDS.nds binary is 1.39 MB. So total size is 2.94 MB.

Well the audio volume seems quite low on the DS so it's not as noticable than if you play it through No$ where you will hear once you start the game the very first sounds playing in the XM sound tinny and actually a little annoying to the ears. Since Lobo mentioned it I think it's enough to be something worth looking into. It's not a huge problem I just think its the low sample rate combined with being played at a low octive makes it sound "tinny".

The latest xm actually sounds worse IMHO. I checked it in ModPlug Tracker and it sounds fine there so it must be the conversion by MaxMod. I think the sample in question is "Dark Woods.wav". Since it's being played on both channels and is a low sample rate combined it can be a little annoying on the ears.

Also I'm not sure if we should have the song play again after the "tension" music when a murder occurs. What do you think?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 15, 2009, 03:56:04 PM
The sample use 2 channels, but normally play diffecent note. I Think I reexport this again in a lower note to been used here on that song....

You could remove the tension music, until after the first murder accour (so these 3 songs plays in the order). Alterativt I could add a new tune so it only play the HW one after first murder?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 15, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
I checked it in ModPlug Tracker and it sounds fine there so it must be the conversion by MaxMod.

I think in ModPlug sample interpolation is ON, and I believe in your code you're using hardware mixing mode in MaxMod (so sample interpolation is OFF...). Well, you could try using MaxMod interpolated mixing mode and see the effect... usually quality is higher and volume is somehow lower... but you can raise it with a function...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 15, 2009, 04:35:29 PM
I gonna thinik its fine as it are, since there is most music in the beginning in the game and then eventuelly stop somewhere after first murder. For mee no problems since it works as it should and the "bug" where you liked the tension music played after HW worked and I keept that :-D.

hardware mixing migght cause clicks (if I guess its that), and the sample should been fixed now, since I now limit it to "32bit", just like these clicks issues I have in Manic Miner DS.

I have also added a another sample to the tension music to one of the channel, where Dark Wood sample have used 2 channels, so I Hope that fixed it..... I send a new tune soon.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 16, 2009, 05:38:19 AM
The beginning of the game, when the  tune starts playing, that's when you can hear this thing as described as 'tinny' and it sounds quite hollow even on DS actually. Dunno what's it about really.

Also I'm not sure if we should have the song play again after the "tension" music when a murder occurs. What do you think?

I would sort of prefer some kinda 'lighter' music playing through the game, something non obtrusive as complete silence is kinda...weird. Only if you have some tune in there that might fit, I guess.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 16, 2009, 06:47:59 AM
the original game was very silence too, I do guess the tension music could been played again after 1-2 minutes silence or such? the HW music should first been played after you leave the murdered person room.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 16, 2009, 07:36:10 AM
[... ] as complete silence is kinda...weird.

Yeah, I felt the same... I know it is made on purpose, but it seems more like the tune has ended and it didn't loop by mistake. May I suggest to make a really 'ambient' tune, like having noises coming from other rooms, of course at a very low volume... or even hear a piano playing from a very far room...

My 2 cents.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 16, 2009, 09:19:28 AM
or even hear a piano playing from a very far room...

Until the second murder, anyway? :P

Quite a few rooms that should logically be there were added for this remake but we still leave it a mystery where the piano comes from...
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 16, 2009, 09:35:36 AM
I should look on the ending on the tendion tune, so it doesn't end suddenly.....

the original game did only have title music and the murder jingle.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 16, 2009, 12:23:44 PM
Until the second murder, anyway? :P

Ahahah... right. A flute, next? ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 16, 2009, 07:51:55 PM
I've sat and played for about 30 mins I think, but I didn't get anywhere and people were dying left and right (well, 2). :)
...this is something that's going to take time. *sigh* ...better to use that walkthrough linked somewhere to learn a little about the game first.

How long is a complete playthrough estimated to be in time?...and I suppose the killer varies from game to game?

Lots of small details I loved but also a few things I wasn't too crazy about - like people walking away when you're talking to them. Annoying. ;)
...also the controls are fiddely - using a keyboard is not optimal but then it IS supposed to run on a DS. :D

Very good looking and seems to play nice. I didn't encounter any problems...but then I didn't get very far into it. :(
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 16, 2009, 09:40:47 PM
It's an adventure/rpg style game so you can't really just pick it up and have a mindless bash at it. The story doesn't vary from game to game it's fixed. If you follow the walkthrough you can finish the game in less than half an hour (not sure exactly) but that is alot less than the original which makes you wait around longer for murders. I have made events happen earlier if you have the correct evidence in your inventory. Characters walking away is what they do in the original aswell, but perhaps I can improve on that a bit.

Murders are supposed to happen infact they have to happen for certain evidence to "appear". The controls are alot less fiddely than the original trust me but I did want to keep some of the original charm in there. I guess I could have done away with the arrow completely and it would be easier to use the menu system, but then I think part of moving the cursor around is a feeling of the original I wanted to keep.

Rpg type games are not for everyone, and this is probably not a style of game I will make again. Anyway thanks for giving it a try! :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 16, 2009, 11:31:37 PM
Its kinda a special game and thanks to make the afford to remake a lesser known game which is not a platformer or shooter :).

Snide might should got shoot earlier if you have real fast and diddent solve it after 4Th murder, mightbeen?

It would been nice to see a version to other platform than DS, since I think this game might also work on the IPhone as well (as a free game, unlike the next game) with a little change of the interface despite you don't have a styles. Its could been released some month after DS version.

Manic Miner can been a problem because it was made in Assembly unlike this game.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 17, 2009, 12:34:38 AM
To me, this game still (including the original with all its flaws) is the most atmospheric 'murder/mansion/mystery' game ever made. Well, at least the best so far. You really just need to get into the actual pacing and start snooping around as there are no haste movements, no quick reflex action stuff, just snooping around slowly and collecting the evidence until the end. Methinks, even though the murders/murderer is fixed, that it still is quite an experience and perfect for long winter nights (thanx to the saving system as well :D ).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 17, 2009, 07:24:37 AM
I've sat and played for about 30 mins I think, but I didn't get anywhere and people were dying left and right (well, 2). :)

The same to me, I still didn't get to any point or conclusion or even a draft of an idea :| But I really don't want to use walkthrough, I think I still don't want to spoil my pleasure of discovery.

Oh, don't know if it's a bug: when you're supposed to choose an item in a list (say the slot where you want to save or the person you want to question or the item you want to do something with) if you press D-pad left or right it interrupts the selection and moves the investigator around. Still, the menu doesn't disappear so you may still be thinking you're selecting something...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 17, 2009, 10:17:14 AM
sverx: Pressing left or right is supposed to cancel out of the menu selection (as in the original) and I just tried and it works for me. Hmm strange.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 17, 2009, 10:38:59 AM
sverx: Pressing left or right is supposed to cancel out of the menu selection (as in the original) and I just tried and it works for me.

Yes, it works... I just was expecting to see menu options disappear... Not a big problem, you see :)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 17, 2009, 10:43:29 AM
if you wont want the people got away after you have asked them, you can pause the game..... Yes its a bit annoying, but its a part of the game if you ask me.

For the Carry Items list, it happens here as well, but it does disapper when you leave a room, so its so minor bug and is also none annorying one.

Another last tweek is if you hold A button down 1-2 secs its should quit just like B boutton instead (I like that tweek). In that way it should been easier to play on a emulator, so you can use arrow + space key.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 17, 2009, 11:31:29 AM
Rpg type games are not for everyone, and this is probably not a style of game I will make again. Anyway thanks for giving it a try! :)

I must admit that I often prefer something more arcadey but I also like turnbased strategy games, so I'm not a completely lost cause. :P

I've thought about remaking games like this before - like Knight Tyme/Spellbound/etc., and I can't imagine how hard it must be to figure out a clever way to store all the dialogue, persons, items, locations and making sure everything interacts as it should with everything else.

You seem to have solved that problem though and the result is smooth and and seems to work very well. I marveled at that while playing and couldn't help but be a little envious. ;)

As I followed development, but not super closely, I have without doubt missed lots of talk about "how to do things best", so I don't know if there's been talk about this, but one thing I wasn't crazy about was the scrolling info-bar.

If I'd done it I would have used a smaller font and had whole lines of text scrolling up a window (say, half the height of the screen) instead of having to concentrate as much as I had to, to ensure I didn't miss any text scrolling by.

But, you know, "different people..." ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 17, 2009, 12:19:27 PM
Actually the dialog, inventory etc. system is very basic in this game. It is based on a C64 game afterall. To make a true RPG you really have to use a scripting language like Lua to deal with the complex events and scenarios. It's not the sort of game a small Indy team can make really as you need writers etc. That being said a friend of mine in the DS scene called LiraNuna made an impressive RPG called Tales of Dagur (http://www.talesofdagur.com/main/index.php) which you can read a review of here (http://www.ndshb.com/modules.php?file=article&name=News&sid=99). I think it's a very impressive homebrew game and especially because he tackled an RPG - sadly not something many homebrewers attempt.

Again the scrolling text is something I wanted to keep from the original. I guess things would be different if I designed the game from scratch. Anyway I really appreciate your feedback, thanks! :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 17, 2009, 12:23:20 PM
mightbeen possible to adjust the speed of the scrolling by the right shoulder button can do the job? Just like the title scroll in Manic Miner.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 17, 2009, 01:38:49 PM
That does sound like a nice tweak actually. Something to consider?

*casually bookmarks link to homebrew RPG for later perusal*
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 18, 2009, 09:33:25 AM
What's 'CRAVATEE' btw?

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 18, 2009, 09:50:56 AM
What's 'CRAVATEE' btw?

Quote
The necktie (or tie) is a long piece of cloth worn around the neck or shoulders, resting nowadays under the shirt collar and knotted at the throat ...

I never knew what it was either for a long time. Luckily it was marked as evidence or I wouldn't have a clue that it could be used to strangle someone lol
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 18, 2009, 10:16:19 AM
Ok, I already knew what a tie is, (it's Cravatta in Italian, so even closer to 'Cravate') what I don't know is why it's not CRAVATE with no little E on the right...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 18, 2009, 10:22:24 AM
You can strangle someone with a CARRAT?

Wow!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 18, 2009, 12:58:59 PM
You can strangle someone with a CARRAT?

Wow!

DerailForce PowerAngers! Reporting for duty!  8)

Ok, I already knew what a tie is, (it's Cravatta in Italian, so even closer to 'Cravate') what I don't know is why it's not CRAVATE with no little E on the right...

Yeah, it's a common tie, Cravate, the reason that there's a small 'E' at the end is because 'E' means Evidence Item, a latest addition. You'll see this small 'E' on every piece of evidence in game. Confused me at first, as I thought it was a bug. :P
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 18, 2009, 02:05:17 PM
[...]the reason that there's a small 'E' at the end is because 'E' means Evidence Item, a latest addition. You'll see this small 'E' on every piece of evidence in game.

OMG! I didn't expect that was the "this is an evidence" mark! Please HK, make it clearer. An 'E' inside a golden circle, maybe?  ???

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 18, 2009, 03:58:18 PM
If you follow Bentley at the start of the game and go into your room. I would expect most people to examine what's in their room. If you examine the Padded Envelopes it will say:

Quote
THERE ARE 10 ENVELOPES ALL MARKED 'EVIDENCE' YOU MUST FILL ALL OF THEM BEFORE YOU SOLVE THE MURDER. MOST EVIDENCE IS MARKED WITH AN E.

I added the last sentence so you know some evidence is unmarked.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 18, 2009, 04:08:47 PM
I thought it was on every item, huhweird. Anyway, I don't mind it though, hopefully people will read that sentence or they might be confused about that, put it in readmes as well.  8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sashanan on December 19, 2009, 03:33:51 PM
Back in the Commodore 64 days we had to figure this kind of thing out for ourselves :D And the fact that not all evidence items had the cute little E was a nastier surprise still. The game expects you to deduce the significance of several items on your own. We've in fact done a few additions to the "examine" text of some items (such as the Padded Envelopes) to help with that, so make sure to examine what you pick up.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 04:09:38 PM
The problem is that today's crowd might not be from the C64 days and not as patient to discover things on their own without being nudged left or right. Putting it in readme at least allows us to give a fair warning and headstart for what the things are supposed to do.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 19, 2009, 05:06:39 PM
Actually my problem was only that I didn't know that the little 'E' was the 'This is an evidence' mark... from my point of view it's ok either if some evidence are marked and some aren't, or none at all (but the game may be a little bit too hard then... uh?)

Touch screen is still enabled when you swap screens, this brings on unexpected behaviors, IMHO...

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 07:53:30 PM
WOOTSIE? Released today? HUURRAAHH!
 :D :D

And I was just about to say that I couldn't find anything wrong in the latest build. This is really cool, I've put the newsie on twitter, you should also announce it on RR page, great holiday gift methinks.  ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 19, 2009, 08:03:43 PM
WOOTSIE? Released today? HUURRAAHH!
 :D :D

On my birthday too *cheers* and thanks to everyone involved in the game. Now it's "out of the way" me, Flash, Lobo and SF are going to be making a new game... top secret new game.. anyway I hope everyone out in Internets land enjoys the game. There will probably be a few bug fix releases over the next week or so as these things happen...

BTW I did manage to fix the touchpad working when screens are flipped ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 08:06:51 PM
Happy birthday dude, may you do a lot of cool games in the future and find ladies without sharp objects!  8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 19, 2009, 08:12:46 PM
Happy birthday dude, may you do a lot of cool games in the future and find ladies without sharp objects!  8)

..or boxes that open the gates of hell ;) Thanks mate! I think I will crack a beer now...

Incidently my last birthday I spent setting up RetroBytes Portal forums with Flash. It's quite amazing what we've all achived in a year :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 08:18:45 PM
Yes, in just a year, serious kickassage. It's blizzard outside but I have a great urge to go out and visit a liqueur store.
Be riiight back (unless I break my leg, there's ice as well).
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 19, 2009, 08:42:02 PM
Happy birthday mate...

I remember back last year now... I wish I could find the post when you were saying about it being your birthday and here you sit setting up this site... I top my hat to ya mate - you are a trooper!!

Though, I did find this from December the 25th

Quote
"Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Flash on: December 25, 2008, 12:04:11 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks mate Merry Xmas to you too. It's certainly been a lot of fun helping set up this cool website and thank you too for inspiring me to get back into coding the DS as well as starting my own retro collection.

Look forward to seeing what we come up with next year"

Well, them 12 months exceded expectations really ... ..   8)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 19, 2009, 08:58:32 PM
lo, if its your birthday today (so close to xmas), happy birth day with the release :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 19, 2009, 09:00:30 PM
Reading my post, I will add,

"You were the one that inspired me to return to coding mate"

Congrats on both the release and your birthday.....
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 09:19:09 PM
Crap, that was the longest 7 minutes it took me to cross the street and grab the bottle of vodka!  :)
Now onward to sloshing drawing!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 19, 2009, 09:24:19 PM
http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7254&p=82233#p82233

There is noone that have attempted to remix this tune before me :D
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 19, 2009, 09:26:58 PM
Crap, that was the longest 7 minutes it took me to cross the street and grab the bottle of vodka!  :)
Now onward to sloshing drawing!
I hope you did not slip!

Well done SF for the post.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 19, 2009, 09:29:22 PM
I which the next game is on MY birthday when we done (its in the summer period). Its the second birthday release we have.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 19, 2009, 09:33:11 PM
I hope you did not slip!

Well done SF for the post.

Nope, got back in one piece, now I'm on the road to nowhere - Talking Heads style. :D
Great stuff for posting that there SF, do they allow for such things? I thought it was only for music/remixes.
And yeah, hopefully by the time you get older we can have 24 more releases.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 19, 2009, 09:56:02 PM
HeadKaze posted in the "original" forum where I got PM contacted by HeadKaze (which was not relative to music at all), and then since joined to this really "worldwide" great team:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=98916.0

Its depend which forum posted it. I Could post it on the "Fun Forum" as well, but I did in the "General Forum", so they could move the thread if they want. Warhawk did posted there too (when a user discovered a missing music credits)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 20, 2009, 06:15:08 PM
Happy bday, mate! :)

btw, is it Monthorpe or Manthorpe? ;) Check the spelling in the announce post...

(and... ahem... do you need an additional coder / beta tester for your next *secret* game ... ? :D )

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 20, 2009, 07:29:34 PM
btw, is it Monthorpe or Manthorpe? ;) Check the spelling in the announce post...

It's Manthorpe most likely as we have discovered. Also check 'Charcters were created' , misspelled Characters.

(and... ahem... do you need an additional coder / beta tester for your next *secret* game ... ? :D )

Hehe..did you sacrifice the virgin yet?  ;D


Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 21, 2009, 07:22:02 AM
Hehe..did you sacrifice the virgin yet?  ;D

Couldn't find any... ;D

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 21, 2009, 04:21:58 PM
Couldn't find any... ;D

Proper response for the trick question, you're IN!
 :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 22, 2009, 09:03:10 AM
:D :D :D Ready to start! :D

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 22, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
You can never have enough beta testing, or suggestions.

Once we have another build with something to show - we will shout :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 22, 2009, 02:38:22 PM
You can never have enough beta testing, or suggestions.

Ok, I'll be beta testing again, no real coding uh?  :( ... well, I hope at least you'll use libXM7 this time! :P

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 22, 2009, 02:46:11 PM
Well, at the moment both HK and myself have enough to keep us busy nicely. HK and myself coding together works well as we live opposite each other (world wise), so we can code in turns.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 22, 2009, 04:37:52 PM
Like this >   :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 22, 2009, 04:39:21 PM
Actually we should talk about this in the secret lair, quick into the dungeon!!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 23, 2009, 01:44:32 AM
Found this~ ;D

 waggawagga (http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/12/homebrew_ds_remake_for_c64s_th.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gamesetwatch+%28GameSetWatch%29)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 23, 2009, 02:36:36 AM
Ok, even better, I laughed for a good 45 minutes...just read what it says below the screenshots~!

 LOLOFTHECENTURY (http://www.tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=17270)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 23, 2009, 08:43:10 AM
Well, at the moment both HK and myself have enough to keep us busy nicely. HK and myself coding together works well as we live opposite each other (world wise), so we can code in turns.

I see, no problem :) btw I'm here if you need help (unlikely...) or an opinion (more probable) :D

@Lobo: ... and is it a release of a new C64 game remake of an old DS game? ? ? LOL!!!

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on December 23, 2009, 09:21:24 AM
It is perhaps the drunken coders post that is not too clear on who coded the DS version
http://drunkencoders.com/2009/12/the-detective-game/ (http://drunkencoders.com/2009/12/the-detective-game/)
They have used the introduction text from Headsoft but omitted the credits.

EDIT: Hold on, upon further inspection, Headkaze made the post... That last paragraph on it's own does tend to indicate that Sam coded the DS port.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 23, 2009, 09:43:08 AM
EDIT: Hold on, upon further inspection, Headkaze made the post... That last paragraph on it's own does tend to indicate that Sam coded the DS port.

mmm... ok that English isn't my native language, and that I barely can communicate using it, but the sentence "This is a remake of the 1986 C64 game by Sam Monthorpe for the Nintendo DS." look quite clear to me, even if I'm sure it could have written in a better way. (but is he Monthorpe or Manthorpe ?? Here (http://noname.c64.org/csdb/sid/?id=1319&sort=achievements) is with 'a'...)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 23, 2009, 11:22:09 AM
I've debated this Manthorpe, Monthorpe thing with Lobo and we both came to the conclusion it must be Manthorpe. It's written both ways in places on the net, even the original game with his signature still makes it hard to make out if it's an 'a' or an 'o'. So we just thought, "Manthorpe" sounds right. I'm pretty sure we are right too.

It is my fault that I make it sound like he coded the new version.. I should have stated our names as we have done in the past. I can always edit the post and change it.. perhaps I will.. but lets face it it's bad journalism not to get it right.. we've had this debate before about copy and pasting news is not a good news site does make.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 23, 2009, 12:04:31 PM
BTW I must admit I am a little dissapointed that I gave an intro screen to Retro Remakes and they don't have the decency to reply to my PM's or make a news post... I really feel a little shafted here.

Look here (http://retroremakes.com/forum/index.php/topic,1301.0.html) or at this quote...it's a few days old.

Quote from: OddBob
Last day on the intertits for me for a few days by the looks of things. Whoops, who didn't pay his bill so he could have Christmas instead Wink

Just so no-one thinks I've died or anything, obv. Cheesy

So, any news posting/achieveyment stuff or whatever won't get done till after Xmas as I'm officially doing fuck all but working on my game today!

I know you're annoyed but he does get a LOT of mail, and now he's left the place for a while to concentrate on christmas for a bit.

He'll get to it.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 23, 2009, 12:11:00 PM
Sok I deleted that part of my post because I realised I was probably just being impatient. As for that link you gave "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.".. I don't have access to that part of the forum. I just expected a reply from my PM, not so much a news post (I understand TDG is not a hugly popular and well known game), but I guess he doesn't always reply to all his PM's?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 23, 2009, 12:18:51 PM
Oh, you must have edited your post at the same time as I was replying.

I'm sure he answers all his PM's, if he feel they're worth replying to (which yours should definitely be), but he's not always fast. Sometimes it does take him a while to answer.

Bob is not the only one posting news on RR though. There's also SprayDough, Caffeinekid and (as far as I remember) Ian too, so you could try to PM any of those and see what happens?

Edit:
Oh, and yeah, perhaps a post like that shouldn't have been in the subscribers forum as everyone could benefit from knowing things will take longer over the holidays.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 23, 2009, 12:19:10 PM
but lets face it it's bad journalism not to get it right.. we've had this debate before about copy and pasting news is not a good news site does make.

This taught me one thing, when I released libXM7: write your announce post as if it was the announce of a website, so that it works better for those sites that simply copy&paste.
Or announce it to Kojote of PDRoms.de before the others, so that the others will simply copy what he writes, which usually sound right.

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 23, 2009, 12:25:53 PM
Well actually I PM RobF asking if he was the founder of the site and how much I admired it rather than ask him to post news. I don't want to be pushy about it. I think RR is such a great site, I love it which is why I gave up a bit of "screen realty" for them. I'm a little embarrassed you replied before I had a chance to edit my post.. Oh well I was a bit upset.. but fark.. it's xmas, be patient (hit myself over the head with a large carp)! And whats with this secret forum area... who do I have to fondle to get access? lol

Yes I did fuck up with the news post.. really it was a rushed release in the end and I was drinking.. oh dear! O_O
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Lobo on December 23, 2009, 03:12:28 PM
Yeah, that post sounded so unprofessional because if author really didn't only copy/paste but took time to do his/her own research, would find out that Sam proooobably don't have desire or will to code the game for DS he did back in C64 days ('86 or so). At the same time, the way it is written on the front page is totally weird as for anyone lazy enough to put two and two together it does sound as if some Magnificent Seven with Yul Brynner on top have made this remake. Next time just put the actual authors info so we don't overly add to the confusion the internet already is.

As for TDG on RR, yeah man, let it all come in the time, no need to rush Bob or anyone as difference about posting it now or in 5 weeks is not gonna do anything really. I know he or someone else will post it but this is the most busiest time for many (party party!!!) so, hehe just wait for it as it proves that alcohol and games do not work (well, it does in my case but that's different). :D

Secret area, you have to get some status thing, I think Flash has it already, ask him how many green ones he had to count to enter.  :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 23, 2009, 04:22:24 PM
Quote
This is a pretty awesome remake. It's a shame to see that it's not an official port. You think quality work like this might get the attention of the license-holders in order to work a deal.
from here (http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=108733)

Quote
This looks like a dream come true, a remake of one of my favourite c64 games! I? would go as far as to pay to play a remake of it, and this is free!
Thank you thank you thank you!!
from here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkRbqV8txdc)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 23, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
As for TDG on RR, yeah man, let it all come in the time, no need to rush Bob or anyone as difference about posting it now or in 5 weeks is not gonna do anything really. I know he or someone else will post it but this is the most busiest time for many (party party!!!) so, hehe just wait for it as it proves that alcohol and games do not work (well, it does in my case but that's different). :D

Well, you didn't have to wait too long - it's already been newserised. ;)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 24, 2009, 04:07:45 AM
Well, you didn't have to wait too long - it's already been newserised. ;)

Thanks RetroRemakes! Still.. I am curious about the history of the site.. like who started it etc. Does anyone know?
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Sokurah on December 24, 2009, 11:24:40 AM
Thanks RetroRemakes! Still.. I am curious about the history of the site.. like who started it etc. Does anyone know?

Yeah, I know. Let me see how much I can remember.  :'(
...I wish I could direct you to a nice forum post, because I'm sure I could've found something on the old forum, but sadly a lot of history was lost when the site was hacked back in january.

Anyway, before the site was 'Retro Remakes'  it was called 'remakes.org' and was the work of one person, [JJ].
- Hitman, who is still a member, was involved as well.

The earliest webpage I can find from the old site is from july 2002 but the site is definitely older than that, but it must have been called something else. It's all lost to my disintegrating memory though, and I can't find any references on the net to it. Their 'Pick of the Month' goes as far back as september 2001 though, but I'm sure it started even earlier. It feels like I've been visiting there for a loooong time.

I always remember the old site as 'The black site' - click here (http://web.archive.org/web/20020725120839/http://www.remakes.org/) to pull a copy of the old page from the web archive and see why. Back then I wasn't a contributor though - just an anonymous visitor and I never (as far as I recall) visited the forum.

Around november 2002 it changed its name to Retro Remakes but kept the old URL. It would be some years before taking over the retroremakes.com url.

Some years later [JJ] didn't have the time or incentive to run it anymore so Bob took over from him and he is the owner now, although I can't remember exactly when that was.

One thing that really draws new people to RR are the programming competitions. The first one was in 2003 (I think) but although I'd just started programming then I didn't join the competition. The year after there was another competition and that's when I finally registered as a user and finished my first game. That was Sir Lancelot which was placed 11 out of 76 games.

Perhaps I should post this on RR and have people fill out the holes.  :-[
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: spacefractal on December 26, 2009, 06:05:37 PM
http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7254

Jan ask for some game to been remaked :-D, there is other murder games as well, which could fit as well as a nice side project? I have not played these game, sooo, but its a gonna nice post Jan wrote about this game.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 29, 2009, 06:31:44 AM
sverx: Flash and I had a chat a while back and both agreed to give you access to the team area (Lobo and SF had already made it clear they felt the same way). While we are not in need of another coder right now we wanted you to be able to follow our progress and be a part of the development process. We may end up expanding into something bigger later down the track so who knows what the future holds? Anyway I'm sure we will all benefit from your input and hope you get something out of it aswell :)
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 29, 2009, 06:59:58 AM
sverx: Flash and I had a chat a while back and both agreed to give you access to the team area (Lobo and SF had already made it clear they felt the same way).

 :o :o :o WOW! :) :) :) :) :)

While we are not in need of another coder right now we wanted you to be able to follow our progress and be a part of the development process. We may end up expanding into something bigger later down the track so who knows what the future holds? Anyway I'm sure we will all benefit from your input and hope you get something out of it aswell :)

And I'm very happy to have a chance to learn more! :) Thanks! :D

(oh, wait, it's not April 1st, uh?)


Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 31, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
Nice to hear things like this :)

http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=108733

Quote
This is a pretty awesome remake. It's a shame to see that it's not an official port. You think quality work like this might get the attention of the license-holders in order to work a deal.
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: sverx on December 31, 2009, 01:46:13 PM
I guess you missed this post (http://greatflash.co.uk/index.php?topic=267.msg5162#msg5162) of mine... ;)

Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: headkaze on December 31, 2009, 01:51:54 PM
I guess you missed this post (http://greatflash.co.uk/index.php?topic=267.msg5162#msg5162) of mine... ;)

Oops missed that!
Title: Re: TDG Development Diary
Post by: Flash on February 28, 2010, 11:09:41 PM
A nice post,

http://funeffect.com/wp/2009/12/homebrew-ds-remake-for-c64s-the-detective-game/ (http://funeffect.com/wp/2009/12/homebrew-ds-remake-for-c64s-the-detective-game/)